Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

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Libertas
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:01 pm What was wrong with Hillary was that she couldn't beat drumpf.

Nothing to do with ideology or committment, just a matter of style. In movie school you learn something about how to inspire and fire up an audience. Hillary inspired mostly apathy. She didn't have the fire in the belly. Nothing to do with gender, because hell hath no fury like an inspired woman. Hillary was no Joan of Arc. The Tour de France doesn't pass her statue four times every year.

Given the tenor of the times, a Joan of Arc would have been preferable. Formez le batallions! Marchon! Marchon!

Also a lot of Democratic complacency. They did not understand the enemies foreign and domestic that had arrayed against them until it was too late to deal with their effect on the election.
She won by nearly 3 million votes. She lost because of apathy in a few states brought on by people on both sides bashing her.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Trump to cons: "myself and my family are pro abortion rights but we will take it away from the adults for you children aka christian cons if you give us power so we can rob you..."
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:18 pm Very well said, Carmen. Yes, I would also add that the labor movement took decades to simply get a 40-hour workweek, and the labor movement is under attack as is everyone else.

My worry is that they aren't just wanting to reset our government, but to burn it all down. The dissenting judges pointed out this destroys the legitimacy of the Court - but it seems to me that the right doesn't care. They want to do away with a democratic, Constitutional country, where elections matter and everyone accepts the results. They want an authoritarian government where the only rule of law is what the Dear Leaders says.

If they win control of the House and Senate this year, they've already said they're going to impeach Biden and Attorney General Garland. Reasons? Oh, they'll come up with them later. They'll make sure they have control of the ballot box in 2024, and then it won't matter after that.

That's their plan - to finish what Trump started.
Yes you're right - this is what distinguishes our times from the past. Steve Bannon, the uses of foreign governments on the internet to help them, 24/7 news cycles, the people who came before us did not have to contend with that.

But also.. because of them, and guys like you, we and the people coming after us have got something to go on.

In my city, Pride is 2 days away, the Trans March is today, Pink Saturday, tomorrow. I can tell you as someone who is doing tech on a prominent Pride entry after 2 years of no parade in THIS city?....just the history of Pride alone is being taken seriously as a heart attack, because already it's our trans children who are getting the worst of these people's agenda.

That agenda has its sights on everyone, including heterosexuals who would like to keep the government out of their bedrooms, including disabled people who don't want to be Buck v. Bell'ed. This ruling has brought these disparate elements together.

We are the majority, not these white cons. We outnumber them by far, and yes, we are very actively replacing their laws and policies. F. them and their predictable backlash. They're still on the losing side of history, and like Plessy, this ruling only stokes the fire under us, the opposition. Lisa and Amy and even Karen are going to bury them in November.
Last edited by carmenjonze on Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by ZoWie »

> Hillary "won the election"

She won the popular vote by 3 million, yes.

The opposition understood that people don't choose the president; districts do. They had the top analysts who drilled down and identified just the districts that would swing the electoral. Much of the talent was funded and encouraged by enemies abroad. Not just the troll farm, but also the analytical firms abroad that put AI and statistical knowledge to work on the composition of the US electorate.

The current House investigation is concerned mostly with the resort to violence that followed a similar but less successful attempt to swing just the right few votes in just the right few places. We got lucky. These few places are still given tremendous power at the expense of the majority by this election system, which is the one we're stuck with. Hopefully we learned, and perhaps now we understand this situation better than Hillary's campaign apparently did.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:39 pm Yes you're right - this is what distinguishes our times from the past. Steve Bannon, the uses of foreign governments on the internet to help them, 24/7 news cycles, the people who came before us did not have to contend with that.

But also.. because of them, and guys like you, we and the people coming after us have got something to go on.

In my city, Pride is 2 days away, the Trans March is today, Pink Sunday tomorrow. I can tell you as someone who is doing tech on a prominent Pride entry after 2 years of no parade in THIS city?....just the history of Pride alone is being taken seriously as a heart attack, because already it's our trans children who are getting the worst of these people's agenda.

That agenda has its sights on everyone, including heterosexuals who would like to keep the government out of their bedrooms, including disabled people who don't want to be Buck v. Bell'ed. This ruling has brought these disparate elements together.

We are the majority, not these white cons. We outnumber them by far, and yes, we are very actively replacing their laws and policies. F. them and their predictable backlash. They're still on the losing side of history, and like Plessy, this ruling only stokes the fire under us, the opposition. Lisa and Amy and even Karen are going to bury them in November.
I posted here when we had Pride day last week, I took video as I went but probably didnt post it here. The turnout was ENCOURAGING!
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by Libertas »

Huge Majority Backs Right to Abortion

June 24, 2022 at 11:49 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 102 Comments

https://politicalwire.com/2022/06/24/hu ... -abortion/

"SNIP......

The latest Reuters/Ipsos poll finds 71% of respondents, including 60% of Republicans, said they believed the decision to terminate a pregnancy should be left to a woman and her doctor, with just 15% saying it should be regulated by the government.

Also potentially relevant: 61% of respondents, including 38% of Republicans and 39% of independents, said they were less likely to vote for a candidate who supports laws that ban or severely restrict abortion.
Oh, Stephanie Miller read one of my tweets yesterday, dont remember which one now.
Last edited by Libertas on Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by carmenjonze »

Libertas wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:43 pm White folks are just getting a taste of the long game, arent we. What I struggle with is balancing anger with action and planning.

OH, just saw Thomas said contraception is next. And Gay marriage.

ps

Is "reason" site one of those far right independent sites that cant be trusted? anybody know? they are listing what happens next state by state
Which reason site is this?
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by gounion »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:39 pm Yes you're right - this is what distinguishes our times from the past. Steve Bannon, the uses of foreign governments on the internet to help them, 24/7 news cycles, the people who came before us did not have to contend with that.

But also.. because of them, and guys like you, we and the people coming after us have got something to go on.

In my city, Pride is 2 days away, the Trans March is today, Pink Sunday tomorrow. I can tell you as someone who is doing tech on a prominent Pride entry after 2 years of no parade in THIS city?....just the history of Pride alone is being taken seriously as a heart attack, because already it's our trans children who are getting the worst of these people's agenda.

That agenda has its sights on everyone, including heterosexuals who would like to keep the government out of their bedrooms, including disabled people who don't want to be Buck v. Bell'ed. This ruling has brought these disparate elements together.

We are the majority, not these white cons. We outnumber them by far, and yes, we are very actively replacing their laws and policies. F. them and their predictable backlash. They're still on the losing side of history, and like Plessy, this ruling only stokes the fire under us, the opposition. Lisa and Amy and even Karen are going to bury them in November.
Yeah, we can just remember that Griswold was about the right of a MARRIED COUPLE to purchase birth control!

THAT is what they want to overturn.

As to "we have them outnumbered" - yes and no. Overall we do, but our states are so badly gerrymandered, and with the Senate like it is, where Alaska has the same number of Senators than California, the GOP has worked masterfully to enshrine minority rule. And, they've taken control of the election apparatus in many swing states, so they can manipulate who can and can't vote. Here in Tennessee, Trump got 60% of the vote. Now, here, it's easy to register and easy to vote. But they did do a lot of gerrymandering to keep the number of Democrats that can win way down, so they can let everyone vote and not worry about losing.

But other states are more important. Hell, Texas is a state that's close, but I think they're making sure that just because there are more Democratic voters than GOP voters, it won't matter to the outcome.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by gounion »

Libertas, let's be clear: I'm sure that our board cons, Glenn, Joe and greengrass are going to say that they aren't for overturning Roe.

But that doesn't change their vote in 2022 or beyond. No matter WHAT the GOP does, there's NOTHING that will keep them from voting for them. They'll all made that clear.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

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carmenjonze wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:47 pm Which reason site is this?
IDK, I didnt want to link it in case it was some white supremacy leaning thing.

I probably cant find the link now...
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

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gounion wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:50 pm Libertas, let's be clear: I'm sure that our board cons, Glenn, Joe and greengrass are going to say that they aren't for overturning Roe.

But that doesn't change their vote in 2022 or beyond. No matter WHAT the GOP does, there's NOTHING that will keep them from voting for them. They'll all made that clear.
It is basic math that even they understand.

Vote for ANY republican IS a vote to overturn Roe, end Gay marriage and on and on.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by ZoWie »

That's what I just said.

People do not pick the president. Districts pick the president. Heavily gerrymandered districts which are also selectively targeted by foreign and domestic interests using the Internet to circumvent traditional media.

You go to war with the system you have, not the one you want.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:52 pm It is basic math that even they understand.

Vote for ANY republican IS a vote to overturn Roe, end Gay marriage and on and on.
Yeah, they don't care. But they'll swear up and down that they don't want want Roe overturned. They just don't like Democrats, so whatever the right does, no matter how un-American, they'll still vote for them.

I mean, none of them have renounced even Donald Trump for January 6th. They want all investigations dropped and to let him run again in 2024.

I mean, we know they are lying - but here's the thing - if they were polled, they may say they're against Roe v. Wade. But just because you have a lot of Republicans who say they're against overturning Roe, doesn't mean they'll vote anything but Republican.

I mean, they called me delusional when I said that gay marriage and contraception was in their sights, but even if that's overturned, they won't vote against the GOP.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by Libertas »

OMG what in holy hell is THIS?


https://twitter.com/sylviaviridian/stat ... xjuyJZjpJQ


To be clearer: your app data is not private. if your menstruation pattern is disrupted, and an app knows about it, prosecutors can use that as evidence against you in court


Jessica Khoury
@jkbibliophile
Delete your period tracking apps today.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:03 pm OMG what in holy hell is THIS?


https://twitter.com/sylviaviridian/stat ... xjuyJZjpJQ
The future.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:06 pmThe future.
Not a word from righty, notice?
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by ZoWie »

gounion wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:06 pmThe future.
Looks more like the present. The future hasn't happened yet.

Agreed that any app that makes any of your bodily functions AT ALL public needs to be deleted. That includes the ones that track your steps, pulse, and blood pressure, unless you have a valid medical reason to do so. Zap them now and restrict what sites your phone can contact.
Last edited by ZoWie on Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:08 pm Not a word from righty, notice?
Look, here's the deal: They say life begins at conception. Any ENDING of that life, they reason, is MURDER. So, the mother, and anyone that has ANYTHING to do with that abortion is either a murderer or an accessory to murder. The woman? Murderer. The Doctor? Murderer. The nurse assisting? Murderer.

A friend who drove her to the clinic? Accessory to murder. Family members or friends she confided in? Accessory to murder.

Anyone who sells you abortion pills? Same as a heroin dealer that sold drugs that killed someone.

And here's the kicker - lots of pregnancies end in miscarriages. But if you've been deemed pregnant by your doctor, and you have a miscarriage, you'll automatically be under suspicion of murder, and it'll be up to you to PROVE that you didn't abort.

That's the country they want.

There ARE some questions. Will they try to go after someone who left the state to get an abortion? Probably.

But then, if they get the Supreme Court to agree that life begins at conception, going to another state is out the window too.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by ZoWie »

By that logic, racism is also murder. Every fertilized egg deserves the same regard as a moral and sentient being just as "good" as any other one.

Use their own logic as a weapon against them.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

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If you're talking about Reason(.com), the Libertarian Party magazine/website, that's who it represents.

The good news is this country's (Right-)Libertarians are pro-choice. They're pissed along with us liberals. The bad news is they still suck in many other ways.

I'm not saying this is an entirely wrong time for short-term coalition politics, however.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by ZoWie »

ProfX wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:33 pm If you're talking about Reason(.com), the Libertarian Party magazine/website, that's who it represents.

The good news is this country's (Right-)Libertarians are pro-choice. They're pissed along with us liberals. The bad news is they still suck in many other ways.

I'm not saying this is an entirely wrong time for short-term coalition politics, however.
Coalition on one issue does not imply agreement on all issues. Coalition politics are what elect leaders, even in a non-parliamentary system.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by gounion »

ZoWie wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:24 pm By that logic, racism is also murder. Every fertilized egg deserves the same regard as a moral and sentient being just as "good" as any other one.

Use their own logic as a weapon against them.
They ARE the ones that refer to abortion as "black genocide".

But they only care about the fetus BEFORE it's born. After that, they don't give a shit. Ask the kids in Uvalde.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

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gounion wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:16 pm Look, here's the deal: They say life begins at conception. Any ENDING of that life, they reason, is MURDER.
This is where I think things get very interesting.

There are many "pro life" organizations who claim abortion is murder. OK. If that's true, should not the physician doing the abortion, and the woman, both face murder charges?

To be clear ... some states may very well take this step. What I find strange is how many people say one thing (abortion is murder), then refuse to make that a legal principle (i.e. charge the woman with murder).

To be clear again ... I'm certainly NOT saying women should be, but that at least the so-called "pro life" making this argument should at least be consistent on their position, so we can point out how both ridiculous and dangerous it is.

There is nothing more contradictory than "pro lifers" arguing a woman who has an abortion should face the death penalty for aborting her fetus - but come on, you cranks, show the courage of your crazy convictions, so we can defeat your position.

The fact they are NOT willing to act on what they claim ("abortion is murder") in legal terms shows they have an awareness that there is a flaw in their own position. Could call it "cognitive dissonance" if you wish.
Last edited by ProfX on Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by ZoWie »

Good point. Soon as the cord is cut, you're on your own, kid. This is worth pointing out, as it shows the hypocrisy of much of the "pro life" coalition.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by gounion »

ZoWie wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:40 pm Good point. Soon as the cord is cut, you're on your own, kid. This is worth pointing out, as it shows the hypocrisy of much of the "pro life" coalition.
The naked truth is that THE RIGHT DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT LIFE. This is about nothing more than sexual control of women. Why do you think Clarence Thomas has his sights set on Griswold? Because he thinks that women should get pregnant if they have sex. And if they're unmarried, it a punishment from God to get pregnant.

They are also against homosexuality because they want to control everyone's sex life.

Will this matter in November? I don't know.
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Re: Roe down, Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell next on chopping block

Post by ProfX »

I've noted several times the states with the strictest abortion restrictions also have the highest rates of both post-natal maternal, and infant, mortality.

Yeah, that too is definitely worth mentioning.
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