The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

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JoeMemphis

Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

marindem01 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 10:18 pm Human LIfe means nothing to Joe. It's his wallet and his bank account. Masks save lives. In fact if Joe bothered to go to CDC website, he would see that because of masks the rate of infection from cold and flu were in fact way down. But of course Joe does not believe in science, he believes the money he has and that is it.
Actually I did go to the CDC website and looked at the per capita death rates between states that were restrictive versus states that were not restrictive. The difference between the per capita death rates was in the neighborhood of 0.0011 percent as I recall. Immaterial. Perhaps it is you who should look at the pre vaccine numbers instead of simply buying into whatever talking points you are being fed.
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carmenjonze
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:48 pm We have always lived in scary times.

:lol: when did conservative whites ever live in scary times?

:lol:
I remember when everyone worried about going to war with the Soviets and nuclear Armageddon. I think the difference is that we found a way to continue to live our lives. We didn’t go home to hide. We did what every “essential” worker did.
:?

Conservatives spent the entire 1900s commuebaiting every person who rejected your violent lifestyle.

You don’t even believe in essential workers.
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carmenjonze
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 10:43 pm Actually I did go to the CDC website and looked at
No you didn’t, you dirty conservative entitled liar.

You never cite anything you claim.
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marindem01
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by marindem01 »

Mr. Biden is NOT responsible for the current Inflation, the economic polices of the Traitor wrecked havoc with it. Nor is Mr. Biden responsible for world wide inflation or the current cost of fuel. Reich Wing lies is all Joe has.

Also, it was the Traitor that caused deficit increase, all those trillion dollar tax cuts that only went to the rich, Best unemployment numbers in 50-years. Mr. Biden is decreasing the deficit in just one year.

Joe only belives the people he votes for, you know the ones that defend and support the Traitor.
Love of Country is not Blind Patriotism. It is not devotion to one person or one party. It is knowing fighting for your country is single most important thing you can do. Do not accept the notion violence is the answer.
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ProfX
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by ProfX »

I cite the data for what I say; I take it for granted Joe will reject it.

The pandemic has been deadlier in red states
https://www.axios.com/2022/03/25/corona ... nes-deaths

COVID is killing more people per 100,000 in red states than in blue states, a reflection of GOP resistance to vaccines.

Why it matters: "The COVID-19 pandemic removed any doubt that state policies can affect health outcomes," Virginia Commonwealth University professor Steven Woolf recently argued in JAMA.

Between the lines: The partisan gap, measured by deaths above what would normally be expected, was particularly stark during last year's Delta wave, when all adults had access to vaccines but stark differences emerged between Democrats and Republicans' vaccination rates.

[snip]

In the pre-vaccine phase of the pandemic, blue states — particularly big cities — were hit hardest beginning in March 2020. But once those initial outbreaks subsided, the virus took off in red states and less populated areas.

The big picture: The virus has proved itself to be exhaustingly unpredictable in many ways over the last two years. But there's no doubt that tools like high-quality masks and vaccines reduce the risk of catching the virus, and in the case of vaccines, of dying from it.

That means it's not surprising that once those tools were widely available, states with political and cultural aversions to using them were hit harder.
The bottom line: America's political divisions are now on display in mortality rates.


Image

Hmmm. The legend didn't transfer properly, so you'll need to go to the original site. BTW, it is all, too, rooted in CDC numbers. Per capita death rates.

So let's examine that graph. There is no doubt some "blue areas" were hit the hardest and fastest when the country was least aware and prepared and so the initial "blue line" surge was there April 2020 - July. But then you will see a "red overtake" from July 2020 to Jan 2021. There were no vaccines, that's being driven by differential mitigation policy.

Again, as I said, no hocus focus, no cherrypicking, though, after that initial surge, and pre-vaccination, excess deaths surged in red areas largely due to failure to adopt mitigation measures.

The next time the red line excess occurs is during the Delta Wave, where the real surge comes from failure to vaccinate, yes.

Now, BTW, what I find really interesting is you can get even more granular and also see disparities in health outcomes between Trump-supporting and non-supporting counties in the same state. Those differences don't reflect state policy (possibly local, though). But they might reflect attitudes of people who live there.
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gounion
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 10:39 pm Actually, when you are spending trillions propping up an economy you purposely tanked, it’s quite logical to ask if the measures you employed were effective. That’s the responsible and smart thing to do. I’m not surprised such a concept eluded you. You appear to be more interested in covering ass.

I don’t expect perfection from human beings. That’s as unrealistic as expecting zero Covid cases. I do expect a measure of effectiveness especially when we are putting a significant amount of stress on other people. That’s also logical and responsible. I don’t expect you to understand.
Just remember that the GOP was in charge when all this came about. It's the people YOU voted for that did it. Blame the dems all you want - but that's just another non-reality fevered fantasy of yours.
JoeMemphis

Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 7:04 am Just remember that the GOP was in charge when all this came about. It's the people YOU voted for that did it. Blame the dems all you want - but that's just another non-reality fevered fantasy of yours.
Yep. Republicans were in charge at the time. As I recall you ENTHUSIASTICALLY supported the restrictions. And when the election was over the next administration continued pushing all those restrictions and you ENTHUSIASTICALLY supported them as well. After the first month or so, I was opposed to most of these highly restrictive measures. We talked about it often. Maybe you forgot.

So all this really proves is you don’t have to agree with everything that your government and/or your elected officials may do.
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 9:10 am Yep. Republicans were in charge at the time. As I recall you ENTHUSIASTICALLY supported the restrictions. And when the election was over the next administration continued pushing all those restrictions and you ENTHUSIASTICALLY supported them as well. After the first month or so, I was opposed to most of these highly restrictive measures. We talked about it often. Maybe you forgot.

So all this really proves is you don’t have to agree with everything that your government and/or your elected officials may do.
We did the right thing. We saved lives. But money means more to you than any life, doesn't it?

Again, what if Ebola was something you could carry and spread to others for weeks with no symptoms, and it would kill everyone that caught it?

You'd say the very same thing, wouldn't you? Keep businesses open!

Yes or no? What would you do?

The question is, at the root, is there any point which lives would matter more than money to you?
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:59 am I’m not going to have a debate about a family member of a fellow board member. But you brought my name into this part of the discussion just to be an ass.

I think Brad did what he thought was in the best interest of his mom. I hope she continues to enjoy a good healthy and long life.

For someone who purports to care about the vulnerable, you fail mention his mom. I think you are more concerned with demonizing the brother than protecting the mother.
Thank you for that Joe.

i'd sometimes like to comment on some of your points that i agree with. Unfortunately, it's usually in the middle of a flame war and my new app on my Qwerty board won't allow it.

In general, my little brother is a good kid. He's always been there for the family. And even with the our little spat going on, if i were to call on him for help, he'd be there in a heartbeat. i hope he knows i'd do the same for him. Covid or not, i do love the guy.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
marindem01
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by marindem01 »

"Money Makes The World Go Around" - Cabaret.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIAXG_QcQNU.

Joe loves his wallet. Joe loves his bank account.

People, Joe does not two shits about them

MASKS Saves lives.
Love of Country is not Blind Patriotism. It is not devotion to one person or one party. It is knowing fighting for your country is single most important thing you can do. Do not accept the notion violence is the answer.
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by bradman »

ProfX wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:18 pm Concur. It's what forced us to rely on the only proxy data we could use in that absence. And yep, one thing that serves as a nice proxy for prevalence is looking for the virus in samples of poop (wastewater). And we did.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/survei ... lance.html

You gotta do what you gotta do.

Also, BTW, I totally agree with all your "common courtesy" points, but when dealing with a virus that can have asymptomatic spread, (let alone low levels of testing), you have to do more than just tell people what to do once they know they have it.
Ya, it's been a couple months now that i've relied on two stats to keep track of Covid spikes in Mn.. Hospital admissions and shit stats. Both to little, to late.

[bold] ? Not quite sure what you're getting at.
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ProfX
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by ProfX »

I thought my point was clear, but I'll explain it further.

If you want to prevent asymptomatic spread, you cannot limit your guidance, or mandates, to people showing symptoms. Or to those who know they are positive, when there is so little testing.

People can be spreading the virus without knowing they have it.
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JoeMemphis

Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 9:16 am We did the right thing. We saved lives. But money means more to you than any life, doesn't it?

Again, what if Ebola was something you could carry and spread to others for weeks with no symptoms, and it would kill everyone that caught it?

You'd say the very same thing, wouldn't you? Keep businesses open!

Yes or no? What would you do?

The question is, at the root, is there any point which lives would matter more than money to you?
First. This wasn’t Ebola.

In my opinion, if your restrictions don’t affect the outcome, why put people thru them? It wasn’t so much what it costs in terms of money as much as it was that all these restrictive measures didn’t make that much of a difference. It was also that many of the folks punching these measures often didn’t follow them. And yes, it costs us trillions and we are still paying for it today. So it would seem irresponsible not to question whether it was worth it.

I get money means nothing to you when it’s somebody else’s. I get losing a business you spent years to build means nothing to you when it isn’t yours. I have no problem with people taking measures to protect themselves. That seems to work pretty well. I do have a problem when they force people to do things that are not in their interest and claim it was for their own good. I think if you are going to do that you should be able to show it was worth it.
JoeMemphis

Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 10:13 am Thank you for that Joe.

i'd sometimes like to comment on some of your points that i agree with. Unfortunately, it's usually in the middle of a flame war and my new app on my Qwerty board won't allow it.

In general, my little brother is a good kid. He's always been there for the family. And even with the our little spat going on, if i were to call on him for help, he'd be there in a heartbeat. i hope he knows i'd do the same for him. Covid or not, i do love the guy.
I have a little brother just like that myself. Maybe we are related somehow.
gounion
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 12:43 pm First. This wasn’t Ebola.
I knew you were too gutless to answer. Because your answer would be "fuck'em, let'em die."
In my opinion, if your restrictions don’t affect the outcome, why put people thru them? It wasn’t so much what it costs in terms of money as much as it was that all these restrictive measures didn’t make that much of a difference. It was also that many of the folks punching these measures often didn’t follow them. And yes, it costs us trillions and we are still paying for it today. So it would seem irresponsible not to question whether it was worth it.
They DID make a difference. You just ignore the facts, as always, because you want to believe they did no good.
I get money means nothing to you when it’s somebody else’s. I get losing a business you spent years to build means nothing to you when it isn’t yours. I have no problem with people taking measures to protect themselves. That seems to work pretty well. I do have a problem when they force people to do things that are not in their interest and claim it was for their own good. I think if you are going to do that you should be able to show it was worth it.
Of course, since you simply worship money and don't give a damn for human beings.
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by ZoWie »

Closing down businesses put a lot of them into bankruptcy, but at the time with no vaccines and masks largely unavailable they went with the only measure they had. And yes, the election wasn't until November when the event we're discussing was in March, so Biden has nothing to do with it.

It might have been a bad idea to close the economy. I don't see Biden's administration doing it. We don't need to any more. We have the tools to fight the virus while keeping the economy working, but mostly it's the conservatives who by sheer kneejerk simply won't use them.

I see no problems with masking up in stores to keep people healthy and to keep the stores in business. Win-win, but that's not how Joe sees it. He's with the people who will block streets and halt the very commerce they claim to be fighting for, all over a dumb little face mask that they can take off soon as they get outside. They will CAUSE more business failures, they will make the big-box chains and the Internet online stores prosper and the mom-and-pops fail, and the virus will continue to evolve until it infects every living thing on the planet one way or another.

The numbers support everything I say. Now, of course, statistics will tell you anything if you torture them long enough, but the raw data support a conclusion closer to the professor's.
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by marindem01 »

It is not that money means nothing "To People" like me. It's that the lives of the people around me are important than money. Joe puts more value in money than the people, including his famly and friends around him.

He cries about losing a business, over million people have died from COVID in the U.S. But losing his business is more important to him. Losing money is way important than dead human being.

No amount of money can bring back a dead family member, but Joe cares more his money than the lives of those around him.

Masks (which regardless of lies Joe will tell) save lives. Since the use of masks as preventive measure against COVID, the rate of Colds and Flu has decreased significantly, a fact which Joe would rather ignore or accept.

Vaccinations and boosters are saving lives, but OMMFG...Joe must have more money.
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gounion
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by gounion »

ZoWie wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 2:23 pm Closing down businesses put a lot of them into bankruptcy, but at the time with no vaccines and masks largely unavailable they went with the only measure they had. And yes, the election wasn't until November when the event we're discussing was in March, so Biden has nothing to do with it.

It might have been a bad idea to close the economy. I don't see Biden's administration doing it. We don't need to any more. We have the tools to fight the virus while keeping the economy working, but mostly it's the conservatives who by sheer kneejerk simply won't use them.

I see no problems with masking up in stores to keep people healthy and to keep the stores in business. Win-win, but that's not how Joe sees it. He's with the people who will block streets and halt the very commerce they claim to be fighting for, all over a dumb little face mask that they can take off soon as they get outside. They will CAUSE more business failures, they will make the big-box chains and the Internet online stores prosper and the mom-and-pops fail, and the virus will continue to evolve until it infects every living thing on the planet one way or another.

The numbers support everything I say. Now, of course, statistics will tell you anything if you torture them long enough, but the raw data support a conclusion closer to the professor's.
Yeah, if Joe was sooooo damned concerned about those businesses, then EVERYONE masking would have kept more people from dying, and shortened the time that businesses NEEDED to be closed.

But it was more important for Joe NOT to wear a mask or listen to medical professionals, because he thought he knew better than they did. That says it all.
JoeMemphis

Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

ZoWie wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 2:23 pm Closing down businesses put a lot of them into bankruptcy, but at the time with no vaccines and masks largely unavailable they went with the only measure they had. And yes, the election wasn't until November when the event we're discussing was in March, so Biden has nothing to do with it.

It might have been a bad idea to close the economy. I don't see Biden's administration doing it. We don't need to any more. We have the tools to fight the virus while keeping the economy working, but mostly it's the conservatives who by sheer kneejerk simply won't use them.

I see no problems with masking up in stores to keep people healthy and to keep the stores in business. Win-win, but that's not how Joe sees it. He's with the people who will block streets and halt the very commerce they claim to be fighting for, all over a dumb little face mask that they can take off soon as they get outside. They will CAUSE more business failures, they will make the big-box chains and the Internet online stores prosper and the mom-and-pops fail, and the virus will continue to evolve until it infects every living thing on the planet one way or another.

The numbers support everything I say. Now, of course, statistics will tell you anything if you torture them long enough, but the raw data support a conclusion closer to the professor's.
I actually went to the CDC site and looked at the raw numbers and they in fact didn’t support the conclusion that restrictive measures work. That’s my point. I’m not guessing. I actually looked at the data and did the math. The ones who were torturing the numbers were the folks trying to prove the measures worked.

I complied with the mandates even when I thought they were wrong. You have me confused with people who took to the streets and burned buildings and property. That’s not how I roll. I’m not into violent protest. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be able to question the government. Unless you think that unAmerican?
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 4:07 pm I actually went to the CDC site and looked at the raw numbers and they in fact didn’t support the conclusion that restrictive measures work. That’s my point. I’m not guessing. I actually looked at the data and did the math. The ones who were torturing the numbers were the folks trying to prove the measures worked.

I complied with the mandates even when I thought they were wrong. You have me confused with people who took to the streets and burned buildings and property. That’s not how I roll. I’m not into violent protest. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be able to question the government. Unless you think that unAmerican?
They DID work. You just had a conclusion and fit the data to your pre-determined conclusion. You accountants do that all the time, manipulate the data. That’s why my union always had to have our own accountant at the table, because companies use the numbers to lie.

You’re not a medical professional, you don’t even seem to be smart enough to have gotten a college degree, but you think you’re smarter than our nation’s top medical people.
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by marindem01 »

Ignoring facts is one thing Joe loves to do. First you did not to the CDC website, if had you would posted a link to the data you found.

Joe does not like reading data that does not conform his already preconceived lies. Masks save lives. It is as simple as that. But money is more important to Joe. If a customer dies, another one will come along so what the hell, a worker dies, he'll hire another one at lower pay.
Last edited by marindem01 on Sat May 14, 2022 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ProfX
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by ProfX »

ZoWie wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 2:23 pm Closing down businesses put a lot of them into bankruptcy,
All I will reiterate is my observation was during the initial wave of what were called "lockdowns," few businesses were actually shut down. Bars, gyms, some other kind of indoor locations with very close quarters, yeah. Many places were labelled "essential" and stayed open here in Miami Dade, places I never would have considered as such - ranging from pet stores to donut shops to barber shops. Restaurants often stayed open, switching to focus to patio/outdoor/terrace dining, as well as moving to a lot more takeout & delivery than usual. Grubhub and Doordash made out like bandits.

There were some capacity restrictions at restaurants and coffee shops and places like that, yeah distancing made them possibly reduce the number of customers they can seat.

All I can tell you is when people blame all of the economic downturn on those government orders, they often fail to take into account the reduced number of people patronizing businesses simply because they were more cautious about going outside during the pandemic. Both of these things were having an impact. I can tell you many business owners I know said they continued to see a slowdown in their customer base, even after deStupid "blew away" most of the so-called locally ordered "lockdowns" in Florida.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by gounion »

ProfX wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 4:47 pm All I will reiterate is my observation was during the initial wave of what were called "lockdowns," few businesses were actually shut down. Bars, gyms, some other kind of indoor locations with very close quarters, yeah. Many places were labelled "essential" and stayed open here in Miami Dade, places I never would have considered as such - ranging from pet stores to donut shops to barber shops. Restaurants often stayed open, switching to focus to patio/outdoor/terrace dining, as well as moving to a lot more takeout & delivery than usual. Grubhub and Doordash made out like bandits.

There were some capacity restrictions at restaurants and coffee shops and places like that, yeah distancing made them possibly reduce the number of customers they can seat.

All I can tell you is when people blame all of the economic downturn on those government orders, they often fail to take into account the reduced number of people patronizing businesses simply because they were more cautious about going outside during the pandemic. Both of these things were having an impact. I can tell you many business owners I know said they continued to see a slowdown in their customer base, even after deStupid "blew away" most of the so-called locally ordered "lockdowns" in Florida.
Joe has made up this whole fantasy in his mind and won’t let any facts or reality interfere. We all know that.
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Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by marindem01 »

One of my favorite places to is the Bayside Cafe in Sausalito, right there Kappas Marina. The Chicken Fried Steak is to die for. They never closed. Bayside remained open for carry out. As did many others. Did some businesses close....of course. The California Mask Mandate allowed for carry out, just not eat in. Then keeping the mask on until you started to eat. I did switch over to the digital version of the Chronicle.

As for Joe saying he went to the CDC website, post what you found Joe....oh you do not like doing that.
Love of Country is not Blind Patriotism. It is not devotion to one person or one party. It is knowing fighting for your country is single most important thing you can do. Do not accept the notion violence is the answer.
JoeMemphis

Re: The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 4:31 pm They DID work. You just had a conclusion and fit the data to your pre-determined conclusion. You accountants do that all the time, manipulate the data. That’s why my union always had to have our own accountant at the table, because companies use the numbers to lie.

You’re not a medical professional, you don’t even seem to be smart enough to have gotten a college degree, but you think you’re smarter than our nation’s top medical people.
I may not be a medical professional but you don’t have to be a medical professional to tell that deaths per capita in restrictive states were .0011percent lower than non restrictive states. That was based on the raw data as published by the CDC. Now if you desire a difference conclusion - say one that supports your theory, then you cherry pick the numbers by say completely ignoring the initial surges on the North and including the initial surges everywhere else. Not weighting them differently - completely ignoring them.

I ignored nothing. I used the raw data. Simple math. Simple spreadsheets. The numbers say what the numbers say. I get you don’t like it because they don’t support your conclusion.
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