Ukraine

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Number6
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Number6 »

gounion wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:54 pm Neither he nor JoeMemphis can EVER say what THEY would do if they were in charge. They just pretend.

The GOP has NO answers at ALL to the problems our nation faces. All they want to do is complain about what the Dems do.
republicans follow the adage "The squeakiest wheel gets the oil." In their case it's "The loudest and angriest voice gets the attention." They don't have answers and aren't interested in solving problems; they just want power to keep their wealthy constituents contributing to them.
When you vote left, you vote right.
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Number6
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Re: Ukraine

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ZoWie wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:58 pm War is also a convenient means of perpetuating the erroneous political theory usually simplified by the facile stock phrase, "A rising tide lifts all boats." As often as not, this rising tide is massive military spending, whether or not the military really wants or needs the ever more expensive hardware which doesn't really do the job. Go south of LAX and see all the huge buildings that Ronnie Ray Gun's pretty much worthless Star Wars campaign built and filled with newly hired engineers, analysts, and programmers. Now they're trying to find other uses for the buildings, and for the people who once worked in them. One is now part of the LAPD academy. Another one is where the LA Times moved their editorial offices. They couldn't resist the bargain basement costs at a time when nobody advertises in the papers anymore.
I don't begrudge a nation spending on defense but part of the problem with having an extremely large military is leaders and politicians will, at some time, demand to use the military as justification for maintaining a large military. That, in turn, will require the nation to replenish the military so they can be used again creating a vicious cycle.
Nobody really made out as much as real estate developers, and they can make out even without blowing a generation's wealth on a military theory that violates the laws of physics. In LA, they are the true power structure.
Real estate, especially in LA, is an asset that can be transferred often providing large returns to those handling the transfer.
In the real world, a rising tide sinks leaky boats no one bothered to fix.
I think that's part of what happened to the collapse of the USSR. The failure of their government, along with the corruption within the government, to provide the infrastructure and services to their citizens undermined their entire system.
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ZoWie
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Re: Ukraine

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Right, it was never the Workers' Paradise. They traded a hereditary aristocracy for a bureaucratic one.

Bad government is bad government, regardless of its underlying ideology.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Number6
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Re: Ukraine

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ZoWie wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:34 pm Right, it was never the Workers' Paradise. They traded a hereditary aristocracy for a bureaucratic one.

Bad government is bad government, regardless of its underlying ideology.
Their government was based upon an ideal but in reality it wasn't anything other than an authoritarian system just like most governments in history have been. For some reason, conservatives in this country think a government with a "strong" leader is the answer but what they're describing is an authoritarian government.
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

https://twitter.com/codepink/status/1611032282873188353
BREAKING:
After nearly 1,000 faith leaders in the US as well as the head of the Russian Orthodox Church called for a Christmas truce in Ukraine, Russia will observe a ceasefire over Orthodox Christmas this weekend.
This is a huge victory for #PeaceInUkraine — Negotiations now!
Putin orders 36-hour holiday weekend cease-fire in Ukraine
Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday ordered his armed forces to observe a unilateral 36-hour cease-fire in Ukraine this weekend for the Orthodox Christmas holiday, the first such sweeping truce move in the nearly 11-month-old war......
https://twitter.com/RevDrBarber/status/ ... 6226825221
Maybe “studying war no more” doesn’t just have to be in the afterlife. We have power to stop the madness. We can stop it today.
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bradman
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Re: Ukraine

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Unfortunately.....



https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-more-arm ... 17655.html
Reuters
Putin's call for Orthodox Christmas truce in Ukraine greeted with scepticism
The Kremlin said Putin had ordered Russian troops to cease firing from midday on Friday along the entire front, in response to a call for a Christmas truce from Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, a close Putin ally.

"Proceeding from the fact that a large number of citizens professing Orthodoxy live in the areas of hostilities, we call on the Ukrainian side to declare a ceasefire and allow them to attend services on Christmas Eve, as well as on Christmas Day," Putin said in his order.

Russia's Orthodox Church observes Christmas on Jan. 7. Ukraine's main Orthodox Church has rejected the authority of the Moscow patriarch, and many Ukrainian believers have shifted their calendar to celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25 as in the West.

A genuine truce in Ukraine would be the first since May, when the sides halted intense fighting in the devastated port of Mariupol to allow Ukrainian forces to surrender there.

On Thursday night, Zelenskiy accused Russia of wanting to use a truce as cover to stop Ukrainian advances in the strategic industrial area and eastern frontline known as the Donbas.

"They now want to use Christmas as a cover, albeit briefly, to stop the advances of our boys in Donbas and bring equipment, ammunitions and mobilised troops closer to our positions," Zelenskiy said in his nightly video address, speaking pointedly in Russian rather than Ukrainian.
[bold]While some in Ukraine were observing the holiday on the 25th Putin decided to give them a early x-mas present. It was one of the larger missile packages Putin has delivered so far.
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

bradman wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:31 pm Unfortunately.....



https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-more-arm ... 17655.html
Reuters
Putin's call for Orthodox Christmas truce in Ukraine greeted with scepticism


[bold]While some in Ukraine were observing the holiday on the 25th Putin decided to give them a early x-mas present. It was one of the larger missile packages Putin has delivered so far.
Every moment a new excuse for war to continue on. Every moment loss and no gain.

https://twitter.com/democracynow/status ... 4306063362
"We need a ceasefire to interrupt this warring madness. A ceasefire doesn't mean both sides are equally culpable for starting the war, but it can have the impact of stopping the massive, massive killing on both sides." –@RevDrBarber on the Russian war in Ukraine
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gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Russia WANTS a ceasefire, so they can regroup in peace this winter to be ready to attack come spring.

The ceasefire is in Russia's interest, not Ukraine's. Not if you want the Ukraine to prevail.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by bradman »

Motor City wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:42 pm Every moment a new excuse for war to continue on. Every moment loss and no gain.

https://twitter.com/democracynow/status ... 4306063362
And it's been like that since the beginning of time. Near as i can tell it'll be like that till the end.

As much as i hope it seems that i've become Jaded in that i see no changing the violent side of "we the people". My best hope now is that we come together and stand up to the bully on the block.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
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ZoWie
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ZoWie »

The war is still the result of one leader in one country throwing a fit after the US elected a president who wouldn't set up a lunch and help him expand into eastern Europe.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

bradman wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:01 pm And it's been like that since the beginning of time. Near as i can tell it'll be like that till the end.

As much as i hope it seems that i've become Jaded in that i see no changing the violent side of "we the people". My best hope now is that we come together and stand up to the bully on the block.
Well, if you WANT Russia to take Ukraine over, then you should be in favor of the cease fire. Because it's to Putin's advantage, because he isn't interested in ending the war. He's doing it for a big military advantage.
gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Lots of videos on YouTube Shorts of Russian airplanes and helicopters being shot down by AA fire and missiles. Quite enjoyable.
Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

gounion wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:53 pm Well, if you WANT Russia to take Ukraine over, then you should be in favor of the cease fire. Because it's to Putin's advantage, because he isn't interested in ending the war. He's doing it for a big military advantage.
Would you swap places with Ukraine and let them hold the war in your city endlessly there, as everything and everyone you have known is destroyed all of your public resources and its remade into a toxic uninhabitable wasteland? Its easy from thousands of miles away to support endless war that has little or no effect on your own daily living conditions. Then there is escalation your flirting with ending life on the planet and for what?
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Number6
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Re: Ukraine

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gounion wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:48 am Lots of videos on YouTube Shorts of Russian airplanes and helicopters being shot down by AA fire and missiles. Quite enjoyable.
It might be "quite enjoyable" for people to watch videos of it safely tucked away thousands of miles away from the war but we need to remember people, both civilians and soldiers, are dying in an unnecessary war and they aren't enjoying it.
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gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Motor City wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:02 pm Would you swap places with Ukraine and let them hold the war in your city endlessly there, as everything and everyone you have known is destroyed all of your public resources and its remade into a toxic uninhabitable wasteland? Its easy from thousands of miles away to support endless war that has little or no effect on your own daily living conditions. Then there is escalation your flirting with ending life on the planet and for what?
Sorry, but I'm rooting for the Ukraine to win. We do have good guys and bad guys here. Putin's Russia is the aggressor, and they need to be defeated before there can be peace.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:35 am Sorry, but I'm rooting for the Ukraine to win. We do have good guys and bad guys here. Putin's Russia is the aggressor, and they need to be defeated before there can be peace.
Odd how your party sided with the communists back when Reagan was president.
Thar being said Russia does need defeated but we do need to set some standards. I doubt you would want to see us embroiled for another decades long war costing us another trillion
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gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:35 am Odd how your party sided with the communists back when Reagan was president.
Thar being said Russia does need defeated but we do need to set some standards. I doubt you would want to see us embroiled for another decades long war costing us another trillion
Well, we never did, but you guys are the ones that love Putin and Kim. If the Republican had won the Presidency, the war would be over because we would have sent troops to aid Putin in taking over the Ukraine.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

gounion wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:35 am Sorry, but I'm rooting for the Ukraine to win. We do have good guys and bad guys here. Putin's Russia is the aggressor, and they need to be defeated before there can be peace.
What is there to win?

30 dead in Russian missile strike on Ukraine apartments; Zelenskyy vows revenge: Updates
The death toll from a Russian missile strike in the southeastern city of Dnipro rose to 30 on Sunday as first responders picked through the rubble of an apartment building looking for survivors and bodies.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said at least 73 people were injured Saturday when the explosions smashed through all nine floors of the building that housed an estimated 1,700 people.

"It was possible to save dozens of people, wounded, traumatized," Zelenskyy said. "Among them are children; the youngest girl is 3 years old."

By Sunday afternoon, 39 people had been rescued and the city government in Dnipro said 43 people were reported missing.

More than 20 of the 30 missiles launched toward Ukrainian targets were shot down, Zelenskyy said. The attacks also targeted the capital, Kyiv, and the northeastern city of Kharkiv. Energy infrastructure again took a pounding, a common theme for Russian attacks in recent months.......
Were caught in a trap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7gBZmQXn14

They do an awful thing the other does an awful thing, every moment in war births a new reason for revenge and more extreme awful things on both sides.

Nashville had a day just one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPfNwTiO2Y0

Then they start to clean up and rebuild, In Ukraine its like that every day for 10 months. We wouldnt wish it on our own why wish it on people thousands of miles away?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjPGCiTu4wU
War in Ukraine: Making Sense of a Senseless Conflict
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gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Motor City wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:08 pm What is there to win?

30 dead in Russian missile strike on Ukraine apartments; Zelenskyy vows revenge: Updates



Were caught in a trap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7gBZmQXn14

They do an awful thing the other does an awful thing, every moment in war births a new reason for revenge and more extreme awful things on both sides.

Nashville had a day just one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPfNwTiO2Y0

Then they start to clean up and rebuild, In Ukraine its like that every day for 10 months. We wouldnt wish it on our own why wish it on people thousands of miles away?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjPGCiTu4wU
War in Ukraine: Making Sense of a Senseless Conflict
Then we should just give up, walk away and let Russia take the Ukraine, right?
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

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I don’t understand the position here. Russia invaded Ukraine. Is Ukraine supposed to surrender to genocidal maniacs bent on destroying them? The senseless conflict starts with Russia and only Russia.
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Are the same that burn crosses"

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gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Drak wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:47 am I don’t understand the position here. Russia invaded Ukraine. Is Ukraine supposed to surrender to genocidal maniacs bent on destroying them? The senseless conflict starts with Russia and only Russia.
That's my take. I'm live and let live. But I've never understand pacifism when confronted by dictators and bullies.
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Drak »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:35 am Odd how your party sided with the communists back when Reagan was president.
Thar being said Russia does need defeated but we do need to set some standards. I doubt you would want to see us embroiled for another decades long war costing us another trillion
Wtf are you talking about? Siding with communists? Setting standards? You don’t have a clue. 🤡

And no, setting standards to your party means pulling support, because a huge portion of your party support Putin and Trump. That’s a fact. I can see they’ve been working you over. The pro Putin GOP is constantly bleating the anti Ukraine message every day on Fox News, Newsmax, from congress, etc.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Drak »

gounion wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:51 am That's my take. I'm live and let live. But I've never understand pacifism when confronted by dictators and bullies.


I get being anti war. I’m against war. But people jumping on that with with this event don’t seem to understand the implications of surrendering to a fascist country lead by a genocidal madman, and they don’t seem to get that Russia is the bad guy here.

If the USA was invaded, would they just shrug and surrender? I don’t get it.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
gounion
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gounion »

Drak wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:57 am Wtf are you talking about? Siding with communists? Setting standards? You don’t have a clue. 🤡

And no, setting standards to your party means pulling support, because a huge portion of your party support Putin and Trump. That’s a fact. I can see they’ve been working you over. The pro Putin GOP is constantly bleating the anti Ukraine message every day on Fox News, Newsmax, from congress, etc.
Yeah, let's just remember that Glenn was all for Trump allowing Kim to ramp up his nuclear production. But WE'RE the Communists! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Of course, if Kim uses it, it won't be funny anymore. But anything to support Trump.
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Drak »

gounion wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:09 am Yeah, let's just remember that Glenn was all for Trump allowing Kim to ramp up his nuclear production. But WE'RE the Communists! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Of course, if Kim uses it, it won't be funny anymore. But anything to support Trump.
Yep. I remember Glennfs constantly defending Trump’s “open talks” with Commie Kim, even though it lead directly to hyper production of NoKo nukes, and we all knew it was a bad idea. It shows how easily manipulated people like him are, when only a short year or so prior NoKo was considered enemy number one by conservatives. If Obama ever met with Kim, he’d have been crucified.


Trump sure loves his KGB commander and NoKo Communist leader.

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"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
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