Boeing

[Glennfs]

401(k)s were meant to SUPPLEMENT defined benefit pension plans, not replace them. They're fine for a supplement.

But pensions are far superior for working people.

Pensions were supposed to supplement SSI. Not be what they eventually became.
If Pensions were still around half of SSI around 1300 a month or less thet wouldn't be a problem.

Very few companies can afford to pay out between 3 and 4k to their retired workers.

My mom lived into her 90s my dad was forced to retire in 1989. Between then and the time my mom died thet received less than 250k total.

Which was affordable for the company and supplemented their SSI income.

[gounion]

Pensions were supposed to supplement SSI. Not be what they eventually became.
If Pensions were still around half of SSI around 1300 a month or less thet wouldn't be a problem.

Wow, that statement has nothing to do with actual history.

Very few companies can afford to pay out between 3 and 4k to their retired workers.

My mom lived into her 90s my dad was forced to retire in 1989. Between then and the time my mom died thet received less than 250k total.

Which was affordable for the company and supplemented their SSI income.

Yet Boeing could give failed CEO Dave Calhoun around $50 million just to leave. Nice golden parachute for someone they fired - when the company had to plead guilty to murder under his watch.

And you don't understand how pensions work, either. A company puts money into a fund, which is invested and that fund pays the pensions. It doesn't come out of the company funds like pay is. And funding a pension is far less than the thousands per employee per month they pay for medical insurance.

In multi-employer plans, companies pay an hourly rate, often on the order of $5 an hour on each employee - into the plan to fund the plan. That isn't bad at all.

But you just don't understand how all these things work.

[Glennfs]

Wow, that statement has nothing to do with actual history.

Yet Boeing could give failed CEO Dave Calhoun around $50 million just to leave. Nice golden parachute for someone they fired - when the company had to plead guilty to murder under his watch.

And you don't understand how pensions work, either. A company puts money into a fund, which is invested and that fund pays the pensions. It doesn't come out of the company funds like pay is. And funding a pension is far less than the thousands per employee per month they pay for medical insurance.

In multi-employer plans, companies pay an hourly rate, often on the order of $5 an hour on each employee - into the plan to fund the plan. That isn't bad at all.

But you just don't understand how all these things work.

So if a worker had a 401k that had that same contribution between what they pur in and the company match they would be OK.

[gounion]

So if a worker had a 401k that had that same contribution between what they pur in and the company match they would be OK.

Nope. Again, you have no idea how these things actually work. You just believe what the rich people and corporations tell you. You don't understand that they don't have your best interests at heart.

[Glennfs]

Nope. Again, you have no idea how these things actually work. You just believe what the rich people and corporations tell you. You don't understand that they don't have your best interests at heart.

Neither the company or the union has the workers best interests at heart.
In my opinion.

[gounion]

Neither the company or the union has the workers best interests at heart.
In my opinion.

I don't give a fuck for your opinion.

The union is made up OF workers.

Just like right now - the negotiating committee is completely made up of workers from the shop elected by their fellow workers. They make all decisions in negotiations. That includes proposals at the table. THEY make the proposals, not anyone higher up. The union has experts at the table, including economists to help the negotiators with the best information, but the committee decides.

The President of the District, Jon Holden, IS a member out of the local, a Boeing employee, and even HE doesn't get a vote in the negotiations with the negotiating committee. They make ALL decisions.

Then it goes to the membership. They decide by vote.

So you're saying that the workers don't have the worker's best interests at heart.

Of course, you attack the workers as being greedy. So we KNOW what side YOU are on.

[ap215]

Boeing strike to continue after workers reject new contract

Boeing machinists on Wednesday rejected a new contract proposal that would've ended a weekslong work stoppage against the embattled aerospace company -- and the union said the strike will go on.

Sixty-four percent of workers voted to reject the new contract, according to the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), the union representing 33,000 Boeing workers in Washington, Oregon and California.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/boeing- ... =115059871

[Greengrass]

401(k)s were meant to SUPPLEMENT defined benefit pension plans, not replace them. They're fine for a supplement.

But pensions are far superior for working people.

Not necessarily. What Boeing is offering would be 20% per year. Thats 5% per year above Fidelity’s 15%
Rule.

Pension s run a percentage of of pay. Which is in the 50-70% ballpark. Usually 60%.

I’m retired 18 years. My required minimum distribution runs about 125% of my last years pay. And my 401k is larger, since 2010, every year. Generally larger than the distribution.

And of my 32 working years only 25 had the 401k.

[gounion]

Not necessarily. What Boeing is offering would be 20% per year. Thats 5% per year above Fidelity’s 15%
Rule.

Pension s run a percentage of of pay. Which is in the 50-70% ballpark. Usually 60%.

I’m retired 18 years. My required minimum distribution runs about 125% of my last years pay. And my 401k is larger, since 2010, every year. Generally larger than the distribution.

No, GG, they don't. You are again uninformed and ignorant.

The pension for Boeing was based upon a set amount per month per years of service. My aircraft pension was the same, except that it was lower than the Boeing multiplier. Which means that the lower-paid workers can do as well as the higher-paid workers.

Again, we have no reason to believe what you say about anything personal. You are known sock puppet and liar.

[Greengrass]

No, GG, they don't. You are again uninformed and ignorant.

The pension for Boeing was based upon a set amount per month per years of service. My aircraft pension was the same, except that it was lower than the Boeing multiplier.

Again, we have no reason to believe what you say about anything personal. You are known sock puppet and liar.

You’re getting 100% of your last salary?

[gounion]

You’re getting 100% of your last salary?

What happens to me isn't your business, now, is it? Of course, I wouldn't lie like you did. I wouldn't make up shit and pretend to be more important than I really was in life.

NO ONE working a working man's wage trying to raise a family could make enough on a 401(k) - which is restricted to a percentage of your pay by government law - to live to be a hundred making 125 % of his final salary. 401(k)s run out.

You're like the boss in the old labor cartoon, where he's talking to his employees - "You'd be fine if you put a few thou a month back, like I do!"

You're selling the corporate scam, where they told us in the nineties that we'd all retire millionaires if we ditched our pensions and took the 401(k) instead.

You're saying the Boeing employees are all idiots who don't know what's good for them.

Trust me, they do. They don't want your snake oil.

[Greengrass]

What happens to me isn't your business, now, is it? Of course, I wouldn't lie like you did. I wouldn't make up shit and pretend to be more important than I really was in life.

NO ONE working a working man's wage trying to raise a family could make enough on a 401(k) - which is restricted to a percentage of your pay by government law - to live to be a hundred making 125 % of his final salary. 401(k)s run out.

You're like the boss in the old labor cartoon, where he's talking to his employees - "You'd be fine if you put a few thou a month back, like I do!"

You're selling the corporate scam, where they told us in the nineties that we'd all retire millionaires if we ditched our pensions and took the 401(k) instead.

You're saying the Boeing employees are all idiots who don't know what's good for them.

Trust me, they do. They don't want your snake oil.

Then why does mine continue to grow year after year. I’m pretty sure mine isn’t that unique. Most retirees I know have experienced the same thing. So which is better, 60% of a working man’s wage or 100% and a tidy inheritance for the kids?

[gounion]

Then why does mine continue to grow year after year. I’m pretty sure mine isn’t that unique. Most retirees I know have experienced the same thing. So which is better, 60% of a working man’s wage or 100% and a tidy inheritance for the kids?

Then FUCKING PROVE IT, you lying sack of shit! Post it all.

Because you are nothing but a liar. You are more probably some guy who never made anything of himself, sitting at home on a Social Security check, pretending to be somebody you're not on a message board.

[Greengrass]

Then FUCKING PROVE IT, you lying sack of shit! Post it all.

Because you are nothing but a liar. You are more probably some guy who never made anything of himself, sitting at home on a Social Security check, pretending to be somebody you're not on a message board.

Seems to me that a 60% pension is inadequate.

[gounion]

Seems to me that a 60% pension is inadequate.

Ah yes. So everyone should retire with 125 percent of their former wage? Really?

Boy, you're REALLY selling bullshit now. Investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/p ... rement.asp

• Although 401(k) plans are an excellent way to save, it may not be possible to set aside enough for a comfortable retirement, in part because of IRS limits.
• Inflation and taxes on 401(k) distributions erode the value of your savings.
• Plan fees and mutual fund fees can reduce the positive impact of compound interest on 401(k) accounts. One solution is to invest in low-cost index funds.
• If you have to dip into your 401(k) early, you generally will have to pay a penalty—as well as taxes—on the amount you withdraw.
• You can borrow from your 401(k) but you will need to pay the money back with interest.

[Greengrass]

Ah yes. So everyone should retire with 125 percent of their former wage? Really?

Boy, you're REALLY selling bullshit now. Investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/p ... rement.asp

Apparently the folks at investopedia are eqully ignorant

“401(k) contribution limits for 2023
The 401(k) contribution limit for 2023 is $22,500 for employee contributions and $66,000 for combined employee and employer contributions. If you're age 50 or older, you're eligible for an additional $7,500 in catch-up contributions, raising your employee contribution limit to $30,000. Depending on your plan, you may be able to make post-tax contributions beyond the pretax and Roth contribution limit but less than the combined employee and employer contribution limit to invest even more for retirement. Total contributions cannot exceed your annual compensation at the company that holds your plan.”

https://www.fidelity.com/learning-cente ... ion-limits

2024 increase is $23,000 individual and Combined is $69,000.

A Boeing worker investing 8% combined with the company’s 12% will yield way more than 60% per year.

[gounion]

Apparently the folks at investopedia are eqully ignorant

“401(k) contribution limits for 2023
The 401(k) contribution limit for 2023 is $22,500 for employee contributions and $66,000 for combined employee and employer contributions. If you're age 50 or older, you're eligible for an additional $7,500 in catch-up contributions, raising your employee contribution limit to $30,000. Depending on your plan, you may be able to make post-tax contributions beyond the pretax and Roth contribution limit but less than the combined employee and employer contribution limit to invest even more for retirement. Total contributions cannot exceed your annual compensation at the company that holds your plan.”

https://www.fidelity.com/learning-cente ... ion-limits

2024 increase is $23,000 individual and Combined is $69,000.

A Boeing worker investing 8% combined with the company’s 12% will yield way more than 60% per year.

Investopedia is lying. Got it.

You know better, don't you.

And I'm talking about people without a good union job. But you're telling us if they just trust charlatans like YOU, they'll all retire millionaires!

[Greengrass]

Investopedia is lying. Got it.

You know better, don't you.

And I'm talking about people without a good union job. But you're telling us if they just trust charlatans like YOU, they'll all retire millionaires!

Fidelity certainly knows better.

[gounion]

Fidelity certainly knows better.

Fidelity is a banker. They want your money, so they put on the big sell.

Remember AIG? They did the same thing!

[Greengrass]

Fidelity is a banker. They want your money, so they put on the big sell.

Remember AIG? They did the same thing!

You really are ignorant.

[gounion]

You really are ignorant.

No, the difference is, I’m QUITE well educated on the issue of retirement. My union and their economists educated me and my fellow union members. We know better than to always believe a company when they say they have our best interests at heart, and if we just do as they say, we’ll all retire millionaires.

you’re being a snake oil salesman.

[Greengrass]

No, the difference is, I’m QUITE well educated on the issue of retirement. My union and their economists educated me and my fellow union members. We know better than to always believe a company when they say they have our best interests at heart, and if we just do as they say, we’ll all retire millionaires.

you’re being a snake oil salesman.

I’d say you are quite obviously brainwashed. And ignorant. Private sector pensions stand at 15% and declining. All the while, people are comfortably retiring on 401ks. Workers with discipline, live within their means, and invest in the 401k will do better than 60% on the dollar.

[gounion]

I’d say you are quite obviously brainwashed. And ignorant. Private sector pensions stand at 15% and declining. All the while, people are comfortably retiring on 401ks. Workers with discipline, live within their means, and invest in the 401k will do better than 60% on the dollar.

Bullshit. I know better. And I’m not making up my education and my degrees and careers like you have.

[Ted]

Does anyone know why the pension plan at Boeing was discontinued?

[Greengrass]

Does anyone know why the pension plan at Boeing was discontinued?

Probably for the same reason Hewlett Packard and a great many businesses discontinued them. It’s a pain in the ass and a potentially huge liability. And the 401k made it easy to switch.