F1

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Libertas
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F1

Post by Libertas »

I think Max will win his first championship, I have not seen how today's race finishes yet.

"Sir" Lewis will win at least one more championship is my prediction, but these younguns are FAST! Lando Norris, for instance.
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Bludogdem
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Re: F1

Post by Bludogdem »

Yesterdays race was really intense. Great battle until Hamilton took the lead.

It’s tough to predict outcomes and with only 3 races remaining Verstappen is looking strong. But Hamilton could take all three.
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

The kerfuffle regarding Hamilton's wing and its notorious two millimeters or whatever it was hasn't even died down. This is an epic season. My prediction is that the next three races will be a different sort of war in the Middle East.
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Re: F1

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:39 pm The kerfuffle regarding Hamilton's wing and its notorious two millimeters or whatever it was hasn't even died down. This is an epic season. My prediction is that the next three races will be a different sort of war in the Middle East.
I am a huge Lewis fan, but I am glad there is competition at the top.

The final NASCAR race had an interesting twist, champion Kyle Larson was hit on the right side, passenger door area, and it was explained that it was damaged just right to give him an aerodynamic advantage over everyone else. And even though this was Phoenix and a relatively slower track, I guess it helped.

Doesn't matter, he had the best car all season and he is by far the best driver, for now anyway.

Yes, he is the one who used the N word on a taped video game event and he was fired from his team and missed all of last year. He was then hired by Hendrick.
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

Fun race in Qatar, almost enough to make one forget what a generally nasty little country that is. Hamilton survives the track surface and motorcycle racing curbs to win the top step, now the war in the Middle East moves on to Saudi Arabia even more of a duel to the finish than it was before. Epic stuff. Good diversion from what's otherwise a good candidate for worst year of the 21st century everywhere else.
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Re: F1

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:14 pm Fun race in Qatar, almost enough to make one forget what a generally nasty little country that is. Hamilton survives the track surface and motorcycle racing curbs to win the top step, now the war in the Middle East moves on to Saudi Arabia even more of a duel to the finish than it was before. Epic stuff. Good diversion from what's otherwise a good candidate for worst year of the 21st century everywhere else.
Yeah.

Reminds me of NASCAR moving the last race to Phoenix, a more boring track I cant think of. Or doesn't remind me of it but I was thinking about how much Kyle Larson deserved to be champion and at the same time how much of a let down the race was. Maybe I should watch it again.

Do you subscribe and pay F1 to see the races on their site or do you watch on ESPN or wherever it is I watch it? I end up watching the 7 minute recaps on F1 youtube because it is 1080p instead of 1080i and much better looking.
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

Libertas wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:48 pm Yeah.

Reminds me of NASCAR moving the last race to Phoenix, a more boring track I cant think of. Or doesn't remind me of it but I was thinking about how much Kyle Larson deserved to be champion and at the same time how much of a let down the race was. Maybe I should watch it again.

Do you subscribe and pay F1 to see the races on their site or do you watch on ESPN or wherever it is I watch it? I end up watching the 7 minute recaps on F1 youtube because it is 1080p instead of 1080i and much better looking.
Using an ancient and increasingly arcane device called a DVR, I record the live feeds from ESPN in the wee hours and watch the playbacks on another antiquated device that I believe used to be called a TV.

These are much better than the replays. No commercials, for a start.
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Re: F1

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:49 pm Using an ancient and increasingly arcane device called a DVR, I record the live feeds from ESPN in the wee hours and watch the playbacks on another antiquated device that I believe used to be called a TV.

These are much better than the replays. No commercials, for a start.
What I am saying is if you want to see a race summary in true HIDEF try the F!-1 youtube channel about 2 hours after the race is finished.
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Re: F1

Post by Bludogdem »

Looked like a pretty easy win Hamilton.
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

I'm getting a feeling that the championship may be decided by who gets the fewest grid penalties from the FIA.
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Re: F1

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:24 am I'm getting a feeling that the championship may be decided by who gets the fewest grid penalties from the FIA.
Weren’t most of the penalties involving new engines because they’re only allowed two a year or something like that?
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

It's getting near the end of this formula, so they wanted to limit $$$ spent on obsolescent hardware that would be junk by January. In practice, well you see the mess it made. 5 places for you, 5 places for you, oh dear your gearbox broke and had to be replaced, 5 places for you. Then Mercedes and Red Bull got into it over silly millimeters and wings that flutter in the breeze, or whatever the supposed rule violation is, and they're still hassling that and trying to get the other team's equipment DQ'd. Sometimes all this accumulated entropy has caused a trip to the back of the grid or the dreaded pit lane start. On that little track in Qatar, a grid penalty was as good as a final placement penalty because there were about two places where cars could get by each other.
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

I guess I got here first on the Saudi Arabian GP.

Everyone's going to have opinions, and I could post 3000 words on mine, but at least it seems appropriate for this season that the TENTATIVE and probably not conclusive standings at the end of this race have Hamilton and Verstappen in a dead heat for the world championship.

Tied with one race to go.

Everything else is a judgment call. Craziest F1 race I ever saw. I have no idea what to think about the last part when Verstappen may or may not have brake-tested Hamilton to force him into a minor rear-ender that damaged his car. FIA is discussing the matter at present.

-----

Saudi Arabia may be the worst place in the world to have a GP. I can't think of anything good to say about that country. Where do you start? Qatar wasn't much better. All these nasty Middle Eastern shiekdoms are sportswashing their ugly governments and uglier human rights situations, trying to outdo one another in wretched excess. The Saudi circuit is only marginally raceable. The race had two full red-flag restarts, and I couldn't count the safety car and virtual safety car neutralizations. It's like deciding a Super Bowl on a pass interference call.

On top of all that, the company that might or might not have caused the Grenfell Tower fire in London is now advertising on Mercedes cars. Hamilton, a British driver, caught flak for having the ad on his car, but of course he doesn't own the car. A huge German conglomerate does.

Then there's Mission Winnow. They are Ferrari's title sponsor, as in technically the car is a Ferrari Mission Winnow racer, though Ferrari has too much history to go all the way in that manner and still races under just its own name. I actually researched Mission Winnow. I had to know what the fk that was about.

It's an underhanded way to allow a tobacco company to sponsor a racing team. It was created after the FIA banned the advertising of Marlboro's cigarette brand name, and that of tobacco companies in general. So Marlboro switched to the product's bar code, kind of an expensive in-joke on the FIA, but that got banned too. So they created a dummy company where the "mission" is to "winnow" out a safe substitute for tobacco that the parent can then market. Or, that's the stated mission. If you read all the way to the end, like I did, you get the idea that it's all cover just to get something onto the side of the car they still want to sponsor even though the public probably never makes the connection.

If you're now confused, join the club.

The last race of this weird season is next week, in Abu Dhabi, a UAE member and another Middle Eastern slave-labor male-dominant zero-freedom oil-based climate-killing shithole.
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

Oops, I forgot that Verstappen has one more win than Hamilton, so right now he's ahead on the tie-breaker.
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Re: F1

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:03 pm Oops, I forgot that Verstappen has one more win than Hamilton, so right now he's ahead on the tie-breaker.
Watched the recap on F1 YouTube, cant stand watching it on TV in low rez.

I pmd you about the "slowing down" Max complained about, what happened there?

Yes, craziest race I have seen in a long time.

Yes, I have wanted to have a cigarette lately, hate that. Saudi and the other races in that part of the world, are they necessary? Money?
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

It's about the money. Thanks to a technology dependent on gooey black crap pumped out of the ground, the whole planet is in hock to some truly awful ruling classes in the Middle East. I suppose it beats what would have happened if Russia had successfully driven past the Caucasus in WWII and occupied the entire Middle East, but they didn't. So Russia settled for some of the oil, and the same wonderful folks who gave the Europeans the idea for the Atlantic slave trade ended up with the rest.

In Saudi Arabia, they grudgingly gave women the right to drive vehicles, but they didn't make it retroactive so there are still women doing hard time for being caught driving before it changed. If you're LGBTQIA+, you run the risk of being sentenced to hundreds of lashes. You report once a week for another ten lashes, for however many weeks it takes to get all of them. The whippings are public, and the audiences bet on whether or not a victim will cry out. If they don't, they get applause. If they do, they get derision. There's a mike hanging above to make sure everyone hears the result.

And we all know what the Saudis do to journalists they don't like, anywhere in the world within the reach of their intelligence service.

There's no guarantee that the tracks weren't built with slave labor. It's actually closer to the deal indentured servants got for transportation out of impoverished London slums to the colonies, but that's still a con job, and the result is slavery by any other name. It's just less open than the Atlantic slave trade, but the result is still a tremendous human rights violation.

F1 needs the money, I suppose, but it gives me a bad feeling watching all these Middle Eastern shitholes using F1 to sportswash their wretched countries.
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Re: F1

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:38 am It's about the money. Thanks to a technology dependent on gooey black crap pumped out of the ground, the whole planet is in hock to some truly awful ruling classes in the Middle East. I suppose it beats what would have happened if Russia had successfully driven past the Caucasus in WWII and occupied the entire Middle East, but they didn't. So Russia settled for some of the oil, and the same wonderful folks who gave the Europeans the idea for the Atlantic slave trade ended up with the rest.

In Saudi Arabia, they grudgingly gave women the right to drive vehicles, but they didn't make it retroactive so there are still women doing hard time for being caught driving before it changed. If you're LGBTQIA+, you run the risk of being sentenced to hundreds of lashes. You report once a week for another ten lashes, for however many weeks it takes to get all of them. The whippings are public, and the audiences bet on whether or not a victim will cry out. If they don't, they get applause. If they do, they get derision. There's a mike hanging above to make sure everyone hears the result.

And we all know what the Saudis do to journalists they don't like, anywhere in the world within the reach of their intelligence service.

There's no guarantee that the tracks weren't built with slave labor. It's actually closer to the deal indentured servants got for transportation out of impoverished London slums to the colonies, but that's still a con job, and the result is slavery by any other name. It's just less open than the Atlantic slave trade, but the result is still a tremendous human rights violation.

F1 needs the money, I suppose, but it gives me a bad feeling watching all these Middle Eastern shitholes using F1 to sportswash their wretched countries.
They need that money? I understand why you might believe that and you know more about it than me but why cant they just run those races ANYWHERE else like maybe Canada or whatever, 2nd USA race, 2nd British maybe. Has to be a way around it which makes me wonder why or who is keeping it this way.
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

The situation is comparable to how the Nooz whores itself out. It pays the bills.

It does make me wonder, though. Surely there are plenty of shitty countries elsewhere that also seek to sportswash themselves. It could be that the Middle East outbids them. They're awash in cash thanks to everyone else in the world buying their oil and/or using their no-questions-asked open trade, and that talks. These are long term contracts involving truly incredible sums. Presumably F1 wanted a 20+ race season (I remember when there were 10 GPs per year), and the oil and free-trade monarchies and dictatorships have the bucks to make it feasible. Plus the weather is conducive to night racing and extending the season into Europe's cold time of year.
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

Given that F1 has a global buzz going that rivals the Olympics, and how this year's championship hits every issue and hot button on the planet, it seems odd I'd be the first person posting my reaction to the year's last and deciding race. It came down to the last pass on the last lap. This, in turn, followed a controversial officials' call following a crash by a backmarker car that scrambled everything with timing that would cause most producers' spec movie script readers to scribble, "Ending is contrived, need less Deux Ex Machina way to resolve what's otherwise a gripping story."

But that it is how it resolved. A driver who was so far behind he'd been forgotten about managed to put his car into the wall with 5 laps left. The car wasn't badly damaged, but it had gotten debris everywhere and then it briefly caught fire (long after the driver had gotten out). With one lap to go, and a historically unsatisfying ending to a historic season impending, the race director made a desperation call. He didn't want to end the whole shooting match under a yellow flag, and so he let some backmarkers through and set up a Hollywood ending.

Just like in Hollywood, the young gun dropped the old guy who was universally recognized as the fastest gun in the west. Just like in the movies, the old gunslinger was universally recognized as perhaps the best one that ever lived, but youth was served. Unlike in the movies, the old gunslinger's team protested the decision, twice, but no on in their right mind would ever have changed it. What's done is done.

Also unlike in movies, until maybe very recently anyway, the old gunslinger was/is Black. He has been in more than one racially charged incident this year. Talk about upping psychological ante. Best yet, it's the real world, and he survives past the FADE OUT script direction and the house lights coming back up. He'll be back next year to have it out all over again. The young guy is Dutch, and has a father who basically built him into the champion driver that Dad never was, pretty much from birth. He'll be back, of course, and now he won't be the underdog.

Oh, and it'll all be done in a brand new and untried car design with some huge changes. (The "Formula" that names the sport.)

Epic stuff. I stopped seeing F1 as just a fancy European Metropole / Place de la Concorde version of car racing by and for the elite and its gigabuck conglomerates. It became, despite its billionaire origins, the most archetypal, yes downright mythic, sports story going anywhere. The planet was watching. Whole grandstands of thousand-dollar seats half a planet away turned orange (the Dutch color). There is reason to believe that next year will be just as good, and in cars no one will understand until halfway into the season.

Go read about this year in the sports press, and brace yourself for more.
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Re: F1

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:34 pm Given that F1 has a global buzz going that rivals the Olympics, and how this year's championship hits every issue and hot button on the planet, it seems odd I'd be the first person posting my reaction to the year's last and deciding race. It came down to the last pass on the last lap. This, in turn, followed a controversial officials' call following a crash by a backmarker car that scrambled everything with timing that would cause most producers' spec movie script readers to scribble, "Ending is contrived, need less Deux Ex Machina way to resolve what's otherwise a gripping story."

But that it is how it resolved. A driver who was so far behind he'd been forgotten about managed to put his car into the wall with 5 laps left. The car wasn't badly damaged, but it had gotten debris everywhere and then it briefly caught fire (long after the driver had gotten out). With one lap to go, and a historically unsatisfying ending to a historic season impending, the race director made a desperation call. He didn't want to end the whole shooting match under a yellow flag, and so he let some backmarkers through and set up a Hollywood ending.

Just like in Hollywood, the young gun dropped the old guy who was universally recognized as the fastest gun in the west. Just like in the movies, the old gunslinger was universally recognized as perhaps the best one that ever lived, but youth was served. Unlike in the movies, the old gunslinger's team protested the decision, twice, but no on in their right mind would ever have changed it. What's done is done.

Also unlike in movies, until maybe very recently anyway, the old gunslinger was/is Black. He has been in more than one racially charged incident this year. Talk about upping psychological ante. Best yet, it's the real world, and he survives past the FADE OUT script direction and the house lights coming back up. He'll be back next year to have it out all over again. The young guy is Dutch, and has a father who basically built him into the champion driver that Dad never was, pretty much from birth. He'll be back, of course, and now he won't be the underdog.

Oh, and it'll all be done in a brand new and untried car design with some huge changes. (The "Formula" that names the sport.)

Epic stuff. I stopped seeing F1 as just a fancy European Metropole / Place de la Concorde version of car racing by and for the elite and its gigabuck conglomerates. It became, despite its billionaire origins, the most archetypal, yes downright mythic, sports story going anywhere. The planet was watching. Whole grandstands of thousand-dollar seats half a planet away turned orange (the Dutch color). There is reason to believe that next year will be just as good, and in cars no one will understand until halfway into the season.

Go read about this year in the sports press, and brace yourself for more.
You sure you werent a writer when you worked in film? Love this! I was gonna post but life got in the way.

Have not watched the post race coverage but I did see Lewis congratulate Max and act like a real champion, not whining. Can you imagine if Kyle Busch or Kevin Harvick or Tony Stewart were on the receiving end of that! :lol:

Question, normally after the crash the lapped cars would have been sent ahead of Lewis to go around a lap and go to the back and that is what would have delayed it so there were no laps left? I dont understand that part. As it is I thought they were gonna be in front of Max, they would all get out of his way (blue flags) but instead they were moved down pre green flag...so it is confusing.

Huge Lewis fan here but I think for the sport and maybe even Lewis in the long run, this works good.

i.e. There is a thing they can or may do, they usually do, but they didnt do this time and exactly what is that, how is it done, are the lapped cars sent to go around while still under yellow?
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

You got it right. After a crash at just the wrong time, the stewards were faced with the decision either to do what they've done all year, and have the race end under yellow with no improvement of placement allowed, or depart from established procedure just enough to let one lap happen and throw the dramatic checker under the green. They made their choice. They disallowed both Mercedes protests, as they had to, really. They stood by the decision, for better or worse. What's done is done.

Hamilton was robbed, maybe, but it's good for the sport for Verstappen to win. Yeah, he's a rich white guy, with a pushy father, from a country where they talk funny. Yeah, he's never had a life except behind the wheel of go-karts and race cars. Yeah, Hamilton broke the color bar and has 100 times more character.

Still, Hamilton had been the champ, what, 5 times straight? Six? Seven? Honestly, it's so many times that I've forgotten. He's still my favorite driver, but it was time for someone else.

Next year is 18" tires, and hopefully more about driving and less about nursing fussy and overly complex equipment home. The future looks good, unlike everywhere else I can think of. F1 is the right sport at the right time.

---

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Re: F1

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:45 pm You got it right. After a crash at just the wrong time, the stewards were faced with the decision either to do what they've done all year, and have the race end under yellow with no improvement of placement allowed, or depart from established procedure just enough to let one lap happen and throw the dramatic checker under the green. They made their choice. They disallowed both Mercedes protests, as they had to, really. They stood by the decision, for better or worse. What's done is done.

Hamilton was robbed, maybe, but it's good for the sport for Verstappen to win. Yeah, he's a rich white guy, with a pushy father, from a country where they talk funny. Yeah, he's never had a life except behind the wheel of go-karts and race cars. Yeah, Hamilton broke the color bar and has 100 times more character.

Still, Hamilton had been the champ, what, 5 times straight? Six? Seven? Honestly, it's so many times that I've forgotten. He's still my favorite driver, but it was time for someone else.

Next year is 18" tires, and hopefully more about driving and less about nursing fussy and overly complex equipment home. The future looks good, unlike everywhere else I can think of. F1 is the right sport at the right time.

---

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What is up with the 18" wheels? They are 13 now, I would never have guessed that.
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

This formula never got tires right. It became all about warm up laps and cool off laps and tire temperatures and track surfaces. The strategy got so complicated that driving skill seemed to be somewhere far down the list of reasons why people won races. It was fun as a technical exercise, and strategy will always be important, but otherwise too often it was like watching testing more than racing.

They're hoping bigger wheels will solve some of this problem. I don't know how much bigger the actual wheel will be, but the rim is sure going to be way bigger. If nothing else, maybe it'll let more air into the brakes.
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Re: F1

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:58 pm This formula never got tires right. It became all about warm up laps and cool off laps and tire temperatures and track surfaces. The strategy got so complicated that driving skill seemed to be somewhere far down the list of reasons why people won races. It was fun as a technical exercise, and strategy will always be important, but otherwise too often it was like watching testing more than racing.

They're hoping bigger wheels will solve some of this problem. I don't know how much bigger the actual wheel will be, but the rim is sure going to be way bigger. If nothing else, maybe it'll let more air into the brakes.
If you want competition, then limit the money a team can spend, right?
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Re: F1

Post by ZoWie »

They've done that, sort of. This year had some kind of budget cap without actually calling it that, and all these rules about when you can change the cars. Car racing will always be about money and who has it and how they get it, but I think we've seen the end of unlimited budgets.
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