The abolishing of the irs is a waste of time and something political parties do to appease the base.
Both parties do it and it is nothing more than pandering.
The abolishing of the irs is a waste of time and something political parties do to appease the base.
Why did your Congressman, Ralph Norman, sponsor the bill?
Why are you in favor of a Fair Tax? So you want a 30% consumption tax? So you think poor people should have a 30% tax on food?
Where are the bills on inflation and gas? The stuff you claimed you voted for? You were told this would happen long before the election. You don't stand for what you claim. It's just about supporting a team that you cheer for.
Well, snowflake, when the label fits it is appropriate. Racism is racism. You don’t like Republicans being called out on it, too damn bad. The same applies to transphobia, homophobia and fascist. As for agendas? Holy crap. The RW agenda is not only nuts, it is dangerous. Fuck with the debt ceiling. What an excellent idea. Do you have any clue what would happen if the U.S. government defaulted? Btw, fascism started out as a populist reaction to the failure of capitalism manifested in Italy first and then Germany. CONSERVATIVES thought that they could co-opt it because they feared socialism/communism more. They ended up feeding the monster. And, of course, Mussolini called it the melding of the state and corporate power. That definition applies very well to your party. Anything corporate power wants to do is ok by you.Glennfs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:42 am As for woke on paper it is supposed to be an opposition to racism and discrimination.
Whole in reality it is the way the left cancels discussion, debate and opposition to its agenda.
By labeling all opposition as being racist, nazi, fascist, homophobic . Or by labeling opposition as clowns or attempting to paint them as be6less intelligent or less informed.
For example saying things like thet lack intellectual curiosity. Things like that
Wrong again. Either you didn’t read it, which I doubt since you bragged about it to defend yourself, or you didn’t comprehend/ didn’t want to comprehend it.Glennfs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:36 am What democratic socialist like Bernie Sanders gave done is simply rebrand socialist and socialism.
They still have and support a government controlled centralized economy and government control of the means of production.
But, by calling it and I am paraphrasing democratically controlled it gives an image that the people will be making the descions.
You folks who support democratic socialism have the best intentions and truly believe that it would make society greater for everyone.
You guys need to wake up and realize that democratic socialism is socialism and will only lead to a lack of personal freedom while making all of us dependent upon the government
Perhaps that’s because I’m not advocating for the Fair Tax.gounion wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:43 pm It's funny, we're talking about abolishing the IRS and instituting the "Fair Tax", without any debate at all.
And JoeMemphis, for some reason, isn't calling for the GOP to try it in a state before they take it national.
That's because his whole argument is full of shit.
But you voted for these people, and that’s what they’re demanding.JoeMemphis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:20 pm Perhaps that’s because I’m not advocating for the Fair Tax.
I didn’t vote for the fair tax. It’s that simple. That’s not how things work in this country.gounion wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:22 pm But you voted for these people, and that’s what they’re demanding.
They won’t even put it in Committee and debate - they demand and are getting a full vote of the House.
Now, you SAY you’re for “reasonable and intelligent” government. Do you consider THIS “reasonable and intelligent”?
No, you just vote for a party that doesn’t support things you do. Why is that? Pretty fucked up logic.JoeMemphis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:46 pm I didn’t vote for the fair tax. It’s that simple. That’s not how things work in this country.
I know you don’t understand how intelligent people can have different points of view on an issue. You are used to being told what you support and why you support it. You aren’t used to actually thinking for yourself. You need to be told. But other people actually are capable of looking at an issue and making up their own mind.
So I’m happy to explain my reasoning on issues where I have taken a position. I’m not in the habit of defending positions you conjure up in your imagination. I cannot and do not want or desire to explain your fucked up logic.
So there you go.
No, I have my views and can defend them and not run away. I'm not told anything. I'm not a passive/aggressive bullshit artist like you.JoeMemphis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:46 pm I didn’t vote for the fair tax. It’s that simple. That’s not how things work in this country.
I know you don’t understand how intelligent people can have different points of view on an issue. You are used to being told what you support and why you support it. You aren’t used to actually thinking for yourself. You need to be told. But other people actually are capable of looking at an issue and making up their own mind.
So I’m happy to explain my reasoning on issues where I have taken a position. I’m not in the habit of defending positions you conjure up in your imagination. I cannot and do not want or desire to explain your fucked up logic.
So there you go.
As expected, your chronic ignorance is on display. You haven’t a clue what the legislation is about.gounion wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:58 am Removing all books from all libraries that mention gay or lesbian. Even high school.
But you supposedly support gay rights. Right up until the moment that the right wants to outlaw it, then you're on their side.
Why is it none of you want to address the House's demand to vote on abolishing the IRS, instituting the "Fair Tax" and giving every America a check from Uncle Sugar? Don't you love the idea of a 30% consumption tax if you want to buy groceries?
You don’t know what you’re talking about. We’ve debated this on the board many times over the years. It’s a scam no reasonable person would touch. Which, I guess is why you’re touting it.Bludogdem wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:31 am As expected, your chronic ignorance is on display. You haven’t a clue what the legislation is about.
Admittedly, I have not had interest in the sales tax approach. But now I’m intrigued. So I actually read the bill. It’s actually an interesting idea. It can’t be more arcane than the current tax system. Not sure if it would have a better or worse impact on the economy. There needs to be more in depth analysis. Would the end result yield an appropriate percent of GDP as tax revenue as compared to the current system.
Now for the chronic ignorance.
“(1) FOR 2025.—In the calendar year 2025, the rate of tax is 23 percent of the gross payments for the taxable property or service.
“(2) FOR YEARS AFTER 2025.—For years after the calendar year 2025, the rate of tax is the combined Federal tax rate percentage (as defined in paragraph (3)) of the gross payments for the taxable property or service.
“(3) COMBINED FEDERAL TAX RATE PERCENTAGE.—The combined Federal tax rate percentage is the sum of—
“(A) the general revenue rate (as defined in paragraph (4)),
“(B) the old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate, and
“(C) the hospital insurance rate.
“(4) GENERAL REVENUE RATE.—The general revenue rate shall be 14.91 percent.
So it’s a 23% tax rate.
It includes social security and Medicare funding.
“SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE.
“Each qualified family shall be eligible to receive a sales tax rebate each month. The sales tax rebate shall be in an amount equal to the product of—
“(1) the rate of tax imposed by section 101, and
“(2) the monthly poverty level.
Basically this says that a family at poverty level will receive a 23% prepaid rebate, paid monthly, based on their earnings. Basically a pre-payed earned income credit.
So gross pay will be net pay.
Business expenses are tax exempt.
Intangible property is tax exempt.
Education and training tax exempt
And too much more to list
Once a product is taxed it cannot be taxed again. Buy a used car or old house you pay no tax. Anything second hand, no tax. Second hand stores will be a thriving business.
Yeah, the irs goes away but it will be replaced by a different administration agency. I’m sure equally arcane.
Benefits. Jeff Bezos new yacht would be taxed at $115,0000,000. The rich buy thing things. Very expensive things.
For me and folks like me the difference between a consumption tax and income tax would probably be a wash.
Other little nits. Build home, buy a new car and you pay the tax. The tax is based on the principle only of the monthly payment. So you don’t have a up front tax payment for the purchase.
I vote for candidates that support many policies I support. Doesn’t mean this individuals and I see eye to eye on everything. As a conservative I tend to support the more conservative choice just as you tend to vote for progressives. As you suggesting that if a progressive candidate doesn’t agree with all of your policy preferences that you vote conservative. I don’t think so.
You can't talk about the GOP House and use the word "intelligent".JoeMemphis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:26 pm I vote for candidates that support many policies I support. Doesn’t mean this individuals and I see eye to eye on everything. As a conservative I tend to support the more conservative choice just as you tend to vote for progressives. As you suggesting that if a progressive candidate doesn’t agree with all of your policy preferences that you vote conservative. I don’t think so.
To expect any two people to agree on everything is fucked up logic and stupid. What I don’t understand is why supposedly intelligent people on this board don’t get that simple fact and keep asking such a stupid question. What I don’t understand is why supposedly intelligent people expect conservatives to do something they themselves would not and do not do? Why is that Bird? Pretty fucked up logic. Hypocritical as well.
I am happy to defend positions I have taken. I have no obligation to defend something you claim I believe or claim I support. Unsubstantiated claims. Most of the time outright lies. You are just a plain ignorant bullshit artist.gounion wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:21 am No, I have my views and can defend them and not run away. I'm not told anything. I'm not a passive/aggressive bullshit artist like you.
You vote against every view you SAY you have. And that's funny "where I have taken a position". You work hard to NOT take a position. We all see that.
Because you can't defend your positions. You vote for people who are against our whole way of governing in this nation. You scream that we want to improve our health care in this country without testing it in a state first, but then vote for a party that wants to put in a tax system that's never been tested. That's okay with you. You won't say a word against them. No matter what they do, no matter what Trump did, you won't criticize it. You say you want "reasonable and intelligent" government, but you vote against it every time.
And you're just a gutless worm because you run away from debate.
I support divided government. I believed there needed to be some check on this administration and its policies. Am I calling for GOP control of everything unchecked? No. Never have. I don’t think unchecked power by either party is a good thing.gounion wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:31 pm You can't talk about the GOP House and use the word "intelligent".
Again, are they doing what you want? Yes or no? You wanted the GOP to control everything - how's that working out for you?
Again you can always argue AGAINST, but you can NEVER defend ANYTHING!
You WANTED THESE NUTS TO BE IN CHARGE, so now defend what they are doing.
Explain how it's going to be in your interest for the GOP to refuse to vote for the debt limit to melt down the USA economy. Or are you cheering it on and planning a lot of short selling to make a killing?
Just more questions you won't answer you gutless worm.
Oh, I did. But I can also criticize my side when they do something stupid. And there's some things that I won't EVER support with my vote. A wish to strip women and LGBT+ of their human rights, for instance.JoeMemphis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:42 pm I am happy to defend positions I have taken. I have no obligation to defend something you claim I believe or claim I support. Unsubstantiated claims. Most of the time outright lies. You are just a plain ignorant bullshit artist.
I do not vote against every view I have. I tend to support conservative candidate over liberal/progressive candidates. That does mean we agree on every issue. It’s that simple. People don’t always agree on everything. You should have learned that as a child.
You said you want "reasonable and intelligent" governance. Now, I wouldn't say a word if they had introduced the bill {Which, BTW, they have EVERY Congress for years) and it was remanded to Committee as it's supposed to be. But to take it out and give it a full vote because they wanted to humiliate McCarthy is childish, which is what your side is. That's the problem with this. I mean, we've had the Green New Deal introduced, but it has always been remanded to a Committee as it should be.You claim Republicans/Conservatives support the Fair Tax because McCarthy agreed to allow a vote. So every time a progressive/democrat calls for a vote or gets a vote on an issue we can assume that every member of the party and all their supporters support that policy? Is that the BS you are selling? Is that your logic? Are you seriously that fucking naive and stupid?
But you vote for all his supporters, those who voted against his impeachment. I mean, Tennessee Senator Marsha Blackburn has been a 100% top Trump supporter her whole time, backing and fundraising for his attempts to overthrow the election.As for you statement or assertion that I vote the party line no matter what. I have voted in the last two POTUS elections because I didn’t think the Republican candidate was fit for the office. If he is renominated, I still won’t vote for him. I have never opposed a single investigation or criticized either the investigation or the investigators. You on the other hand constantly and consistently do the opposite when it comes to your party. So do not lecture me on principles and standards unless you are prepared to live under those same standards. You are not inky gutless but are a serial liar and a hypocrite to boot.
That's a lie. You don't vote ANYTHING but a GOP government. You bragged every time for the GOP to win it all.JoeMemphis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:46 pm I support divided government. I believed there needed to be some check on this administration and its policies. Am I calling for GOP control of everything unchecked? No. Never have. I don’t think unchecked power by either party is a good thing.
You living up to your “standards” doesn’t set the bar very high.gounion wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:04 pm Oh, I did. But I can also criticize my side when they do something stupid. And there's some things that I won't EVER support with my vote. A wish to strip women and LGBT+ of their human rights, for instance.
But you don't give a shit about anyone's rights but YOURS. You'll vote to ban abortion and gay rights in this country, but goddamn anyone that wants to tell you that you need to wear a mask to protect yourself and others.
You said you want "reasonable and intelligent" governance. Now, I wouldn't say a word if they had introduced the bill {Which, BTW, they have EVERY Congress for years) and it was remanded to Committee as it's supposed to be. But to take it out and give it a full vote because they wanted to humiliate McCarthy is childish, which is what your side is. That's the problem with this. I mean, we've had the Green New Deal introduced, but it has always been remanded to a Committee as it should be.
And the "Fair Tax" is a nutty crazy far-right scam that no reasonable economist has ever supported. But I'll bet you dollars to donuts that when it's voted on in the full House, a majority - probably a big majority - of the GOP will vote for it.
Again, you're the one that said you wanted a "reasonable and intelligent" government. So why won't you criticize them?
But you vote for all his supporters, those who voted against his impeachment. I mean, Tennessee Senator Marsha Blackburn has been a 100% top Trump supporter her whole time, backing and fundraising for his attempts to overthrow the election.
So your attempt to deflect holds no water, and your support of Trump and unwillingness to actually criticize anything he's ever done shows the truth of your views on him.
I ALWAYS live up to MY standards. I admit it's easier for you, since you have absolutely NO ETHICS OR STANDARDS AT ALL.
It has been talked about for decades and never really gets any traction. It has other problems. Bottomline, there isn’t a majority in either party or in either house to support a proposal. Talking about a bill versus actually passing a bill is vastly different.ProfX wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:05 pm The Trouble with the FairTax
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/trouble-fairtax
FairTax advocates counter that their proposal would also replace regressive payroll and excise taxes (as well as highly progressive estate taxes), but the bottom line is that tax burdens on middle-income households would surely rise while high-income families would get a big tax cut.
Some people might call that an UnfairTax.
[snip][end]
I’ll bet a majority of Republicans in the House vote for it.JoeMemphis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:11 pm It has been talked about for decades and never really gets any traction. It has other problems. Bottomline, there isn’t a majority in either party or in either house to support a proposal. Talking about a bill versus actually passing a bill is vastly different.