Batgirl, Flash and HBO Max going away??? DCU reboot?

[gounion]

So, it was leaked that Batgirl was NOT what studio head David Zaslav won't let it ever see the light of day. Where does this leave the already-problematic Flash film, already in the can, because of star Ezra Miller becoming radioactive for many criminal reasons?

Industry watcher Grace Randolph has a great rundown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0oSqrY_rdo

Tomorrow Warner Brothers has an earnings call, and it will probably have several bombshells. First, word is that HBO Max will be folded into Discovery Plus, and will basically go away. That bums me out, I watch several things on HBO Max, and I don't see anything worthwhile on Discovery Plus.

Grace says that it looks like Zaslav is tired of the disasters of the DCU, of which only Batman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman has been worthwhile and good competition for the MCU (and let's not talk about WW 1984). Not everything is bad - the Shazam! movie was pretty good. Oh, I liked the last Suicide Squad, and shit, Peacemaker was very popular on HBO Max, and I thought there was a season 2 in the works? I'll always watch anything with Harley Quinn in it.

So it may be that Black Adam, Shazam! 2 and Aquaman 2 will be the end of what we know today as the DCU, and will be reworked from the ground up completely under Zaslav moving forward.

You know, as a kid I always preferred DC to Marvel. But the MCU has been far better than DCU. But you know, DC has done great things - the animated series from the nineties, Batman, Superman and Justice League was great - and they've made many direct-to-video animated movies that were excellent.

So there ARE good stories to be told. What they need is a Kevin Feige of DC. But is there anyone that can be that overseer?

[Libertas]

Aww fuck, much of what I like in scripted content comes from HBO Max...Discovery plus I have but it is lame and completely different.

[ProfX]

The Arrowverse of CW has imploded. For reasons I can't fathom, they're bringing Gotham Knights to the CW. Really? I've seen the trailers and I'm very unimpressed. I don't see it lasting a season. Flash is definitely over with the 9th season, which will be shortened. Superman & Lois may be all that survives.

If HBO Max goes, well, bye bye Doom Patrol, Titans, sigh. Also, there was a Legion of Superheroes project being worked on, possible return of Melissa Benoist, guess that's toast, too. Likewise, the Harley Quinn animated series, where she and Poison Ivy have finally shipped ...

They may cancel the Flash movie, which was supposed to reboot the DCEU continuity through Flashpoint timey wimey nonsense.

Now, who knows. The whole DCEU is adrift. The most recent Batman film was well liked, but it, like Joker, is in its own separate continuity, or so they've said.

Something needs to save it.

[gounion]

The Arrowverse of CW has imploded. For reasons I can't fathom, they're bringing Gotham Knights to the CW. Really? I've seen the trailers and I'm very unimpressed. I don't see it lasting a season. Flash is definitely over with the 9th season, which will be shortened. Superman & Lois may be all that survives.

If HBO Max goes, well, bye bye Doom Patrol, Titans, sigh. Also, there was a Legion of Superheroes project being worked on, possible return of Melissa Benoist, guess that's toast, too.

They may cancel the Flash movie, which was supposed to reboot the DCEU continuity through Flashpoint timey wimey nonsense.

Now, who knows. The whole DCEU is adrift. The most recent Batman film was well liked, but it, like Joker, is in its own separate continuity, or so they've said.

Something needs to save it.

And what happens to the animated Harley Quinn? Season three just came out and the series is great, if quirky!

[ProfX]

Well, dunno. I sure hope they get to finish the season before HBO Max's plug is pulled.

The "bi-mance" between Harley & Ivy has been fan-shipped since, like, forever. And they've finally made it part of the show.

I'm sure somewhere some angry puritan is asking what that's doing in an animated series, but I'm like hello, it's like Adult Swim, just cuz it's animated doesn't mean the intended audience are kids only.

Oh, this just came up in my feeds ... Gotham Knights already cancelled by WB-Discovery, even before it got out of the gate. (Not shocked on that one.)

Also, Leslie Grace Martinez (who was the actress for the now cancelled Batgirl film) is Latina ... Dominican .... her mom has a hair salon in South Florida.

[ZoWie]

Along with the usual financial uncertainties of a highly speculative business, there was also the fact that Batgirl bombed its sneaks. I always liked DCU better than MCU too, but the audience seems to buzz more on MC.

Of course my opinion is worthless because I am so old I remember when above the line money also went into original screenplays, and everything wasn't about selling the farm to get rights to characters from other media. I also remember when Comic-Con was actually about comics, so don't listen to me. I'm out of touch with the real world, seeing as I majored in film making, not marketing metrics. I find the current environment to be somewhat sickening.

Either way, usually once a picture is in the can they try to recover whatever they are able to get. However, the rumors going around town made it sound as if the business majors at Corporate ran the numbers and decided they could do better taking it as a tax writeoff as opposed to sending it to streaming with no realistic hope of recovering the $70 million production cost. If the streaming is undergoing corporate finagling and no one has the next three months fully planned out, that would make this explanation more probable.

Of course, those are yesterday's rumors, and I don't get the trades any more so I haven't seen today's.

[ProfX]

Yeah. Of course, I wonder if this played a role.

Saw on youtoob "MAGAfans" are claiming they are glad Batgirl got cancelled, since it was too "woke"; they didn't like Barbara Gordon being played by a Latina actress, and apparently the film also featured a trans character. I guess it doesn't take much.

As for what's happening with Ezra Miller ... it's all so weird and confusing, so I am not going to comment. There were some folks saying they should reshoot the whole damn thing with Grant Gustin instead, or another actor, but they would take a bath doing that as well.

[ZoWie]

Double post, deleted.

[ZoWie]

Seen that. I'm trying to keep the female lead's race out of it, though I'm sure the MAGAts have strong opinions.

This was a much longer post, but I deleted the rest. I'd forgotten my own policy of not discussing the performing arts on this board.

[ProfX]

HBO Max, Discovery+ to Merge Into Single Streaming Platform Starting in Summer 2023
https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/h ... 235333314/

Is the whole of a combined HBO Max-Discovery+ greater than its streaming parts? Warner Bros. Discovery is going to find out next year.

The media company announced a timeline for the two services to be fused together: HBO Max and Discovery+ will launch in the U.S. as a single service in the summer of 2023, according to JB Perrette, CEO and president of global streaming and interactive for Warner Bros. Discovery, speaking on the company’s Q2 earnings call.

[snip]

WBD did not announce what the new brand name for the merged service will be, nor did execs discuss pricing for the unified streamer. Warner Bros. Discovery is initially focused on the ad-supported and ad-free versions of the combined HBO Max-Discovery+, Perrette said, but is also “exploring how to reach customers in the free, ad-supported space” with content that is totally different from what’s on the premium VOD services.

[snip][end]

Yeah. So, does this smoosh-together really make sense? Discovery is known for its documentary and reality content, and HBO Max for, well, a lot of the DCEU stuff, plus some other scripted content (like Lovecraft Country, GoT, Westworld, etc., etc.). They're gonna put all that in one place?

Dunno what this means for the future of Titans, Harley, or the other DCEU shows.

BTW, DC tried for a very short time - didn't last long - to keep all their streaming content on their own "DC Universe" platform - that bombed - that's how it all wound up on HBO Max. Until ... ?

[ProfX]

Looks like they're not throwing in the towel.

Warner Bros. Discovery Reveals DCEU 10 Year Plan Inspired By Kevin Feige's MCU
After years trying to play down direct comparisons, Warner Bros. Discovery are now looking to emulate the MCU with a 10 year DCEU plan.
https://movieweb.com/warner-bros-discov ... eiges-mcu/

[snip]

While Warner Bros. Discovery finally seem to be doing what should have been done almost 10 years ago and looking to build a solid and successful DCEU, the cancelation of Batgirl as part of the strategy did not sit well with fans of the character or the actors involved. Whether it was supporters of the return of Michael Keaton’s Batman, Leslie Grace in the titular role or the comeback of Brendan Fraser as the movie’s villain, Firefly, social media was very quickly filled with hashtags in support of the movie being released in some form. While this kind of thing worked before with the released of Zack Snyder’s Justice League, this time around it is a whole new ball game, and it looks like no amount of hashtags are going to lead to Batgirl ever seeing the light of day.

Now, it looks like there are going to be many changes to the way the DCEU moves forward beyond next year’s The Flash, and that apparently includes longer wait times for movies to be certain of success before being released as the studio aims to look at quality over quantity from what should be their biggest IP.

[snip][end]

So they've got plans. Well, good, but as the saying goes, those usually survive up until contact with the enemy.

Hope they've got some execution behind those plans. Meanwhile they seem to be cancelling everything. Is the Flash movie off or on?

[ZoWie]

It's all product. The fans care about actors' names and characters and whether or not someone they like is in this week's output, and which platform the show's going to be on this time. To everyone else, it's just the routine running of a business like any other, even though their business is decidedly unlike most others. Everyone actually responsible for feeding the ever-hungrier media delivery maw watches the numbers scrolling rapidly past them, and makes decisions accordingly, thinking maybe a quarter ahead in a medium that takes a lot longer than that to get shows made. The result is that a creative enterprise has been turned into a sawmill, and not a very good one. Among other problems, it's a pretty shitty place to work.

CNBC is in a huge lather about Warner/Discovery+/HBO, or whatever string of names they are this year. I gave up keeping track of their exact name years ago. It should be Mergers And Acquisitions R Us. CNBC is all on about this amorphous enterprise. They're droning away about the cost of something vs the return from something else, while all the time the screen is flashing with many charts that have squiggly lines on them. All the squiggly lines slope sharply downward. Downward squiggly lines are not popular with the anonymous masses of people in suits who spend most of their lives sitting at computer terminals in large buildings somewhere in the trail left across midtown Manhattan by the string of conglomerates du jour all with the word "Warner" in them somewhere.

That undoubtedly has something to do with the chaos we see unfolding before our amazed eyes. Frankly, this chaos is far more interesting to me than their product has been for years now. It's a view into another universe where time and space mean different things than anything in General Relativity.

[gounion]

It's all product. The fans care about actors' names and characters and whether or not someone they like is in this week's output, and which platform the show's going to be on this time. To everyone else, it's just the routine running of a business like any other, even though their business is decidedly unlike most others. Everyone actually responsible for feeding the ever-hungrier media delivery maw watches the numbers scrolling rapidly past them, and makes decisions accordingly, thinking maybe a quarter ahead in a medium that takes a lot longer than that to get shows made. The result is that a creative enterprise has been turned into a sawmill, and not a very good one. Among other problems, it's a pretty shitty place to work.

CNBC is in a huge lather about Warner/Discovery+/HBO, or whatever string of names they are this year. I gave up keeping track of their exact name years ago. It should be Mergers And Acquisitions R Us. CNBC is all on about this amorphous enterprise. They're droning away about the cost of something vs the return from something else, while all the time the screen is flashing with many charts that have squiggly lines on them. All the squiggly lines slope sharply downward. Downward squiggly lines are not popular with the anonymous masses of people in suits who spend most of their lives sitting at computer terminals in large buildings somewhere in the trail left across midtown Manhattan by the string of conglomerates du jour all with the word "Warner" in them somewhere.

That undoubtedly has something to do with the chaos we see unfolding before our amazed eyes. Frankly, this chaos is far more interesting to me than their product has been for years now. It's a view into another universe where time and space mean different things than anything in General Relativity.

I think all in all, the consolidation of our entertainment media has been terrible not only for the artists, but the fans. I mean, Disney shouldn't own all these franchises all at once, just buying everything up, so that everyone else does the same thing just to survive. It's insane.

[ZoWie]

The industry was underperforming until Internet opened up the long-dreamed-of Third Screen. Careful what you wish for. Now they try to buy up every creative property in the world, reduce it all to the same old crap, and shovel it into the machine ever faster. The public is expected to keep subscribing to more and more of the same old crap. Soon most of it will be the same old crap with commercials, or the subscription price will go through the ionosphere to get rid of them.

It can't last. In this era of war and scarcity, with pestilence abroad in the land, whole industries grinding to a crawl, weather going haywire, and the Fed sending interest rates into the ionosphere, something's gotta give. This week's news about the amorphous conglomerated entity that we old farts still call Warner's provides a possible hint that the giving has begun.

[ProfX]

BTW, there was a Supergirl film project in the works too - that's toast too - they were going to break a long standing taboo and make her a brunette.

She was gonna be played by Sasha Calle - yep, a former soap actress - and appear in the Flash movie.



Also, there was gonna be a Green Lantern project. GL was SUPPOSED to be in the Justice League movie, never quite made it, even the Snyder cut still only shows a glimpse at him.

It appears to all be toast (although as I said that's unclear).

Yes, fine, the Ryan Reynolds film sucked hard. Even he says as much. There's a great Deadpool 2 scene where he travels back in time to kill "himself" (Ryan) as he reads the Green Lantern script.

Again, it could be done right. But I have this sense the new management is not interested in the DC peripheral characters. They may have just lucked out in making Aquaman a box office draw.

[gounion]

I don't know if they're uninterested - It's far smarter to make franchises of all the characters they can. But they seem to be planning to start with a clean sheet and grow from there - starting with Supes. But it's going to be a decade-long job.

[ZoWie]

These days in the entertainment business, a decade is about equal to what we used to consider a lifetime.

We don't even know how many more delivery platforms are in the works. I still dread a time when they make us all wear those ridiculous VR headsets.

I think we're already in the reaction phase, and there will probably be a rediscovery of live theater. A lot of people are about to become tired of being entertained by machines showing a product made by machines. When covid becomes even a little bit more manageable, a lot of people are going to want to go out.

-----------

The comics used to be fun. Everyone, myself included, loved them. Just silly, escapist fun, where the laws of physics didn't hold but the heroic aspirations of humanity still did. That's why they're considered alternate universes in the first place. When you turn something into a multi-billion-dollar franchise operation, with the futures of giant conglomerates on the line, and tens of megabucks being risked on marketing department demographic testing, it stops being fun.

[ProfX]

The weird thing is they seem to be sticking with the Flash film.

Or were.

Everything you need to know about the future of 'The Flash' and Ezra Miller allegations: The Refresh
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ezr ... 51194.html

Ezra Miller's legal troubles are mounting.

One thing I know for sure - they are not gonna send him on a promotional tour if this thing releases.