Labor/Economics

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Glennfs
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:29 pm Yep. And Governors in states like Iowa are specifically making people who are fired for refusing a vaccine eligible for unemployment. Normally people fired for cause are NOT eligible.
Are you opposed to that
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:15 pm Are you opposed to that
Do you think someone who is fired from their job for cause should be able to draw unemployment?

As for your question to me, if people can’t draw unemployment when fired for cause EXCEPT for being fired for refusing vaccination, no I don’t think they should be eligible.
Glennfs
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:22 pm Do you think someone who is fired from their job for cause should be able to draw unemployment?

As for your question to me, if people can’t draw unemployment when fired for cause EXCEPT for being fired for refusing vaccination, no I don’t think they should be eligible.
In this case yes in other cases sometimes yes sometimes no.
But covid issues are a completely different animal one that we didn't have to address in the past

Btw here in the real world most people do get their unemployment when fired even though technically they shouldn't
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:31 pm In this case yes in other cases sometimes yes sometimes no.
But covid issues are a completely different animal one that we didn't have to address in the past

Btw here in the real world most people do get their unemployment when fired even though technically they shouldn't
Untrue. In most states you CANNOT draw unemployment when you’ve been fired for cause. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

And if others can’t draw unemployment after being fired for cause, then vaccine denying idiots shouldn’t be able to draw it either.
JoeMemphis

Re: Labor/Economics

Post by JoeMemphis »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:31 pm In this case yes in other cases sometimes yes sometimes no.
But covid issues are a completely different animal one that we didn't have to address in the past

Btw here in the real world most people do get their unemployment when fired even though technically they shouldn't
I agree Glenn. Many of these folks worked during the pandemic while others stayed at home drawing unemployment. I don’t think being terminated because you refused the vaccine is the same as theft or insubordination. I don’t think we should go out of our way to punish these people because they don’t want to take a vaccine

I have terminated people for cause before. If they file for unemployment, all you need to do as an employer is not object to the claim. .
Glennfs
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:40 pm Untrue. In most states you CANNOT draw unemployment when you’ve been fired for cause. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

And if others can’t draw unemployment after being fired for cause, then vaccine denying idiots shouldn’t be able to draw it either.
I have known dozens of people who have again I am taking about here in the real world.
If the employer has a real hard on and wants to go through the process of appeal yes you are correct.
But in most cases I've known of it isn't worth the hassle
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:51 pm I agree Glenn. Many of these folks worked during the pandemic while others stayed at home drawing unemployment. I don’t think being terminated because you refused the vaccine is the same as theft or insubordination. I don’t think we should go out of our way to punish these people because they don’t want to take a vaccine

I have terminated people for cause before. If they file for unemployment, all you need to do as an employer is not object to the claim. .
Gee, but everyone else who draws are lazy bastards.

So, now, if you want six months paid by Uncle Sugar, just refuse the vaccine and draw those checks!

It sure makes Glenn's bitching about lazy people on unemployment quite hypocritical.
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Libertas
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:02 pm Gee, but everyone else who draws are lazy bastards.

So, now, if you want six months paid by Uncle Sugar, just refuse the vaccine and draw those checks!

It sure makes Glenn's bitching about lazy people on unemployment quite hypocritical.
I think we need a healthier hobby than talking to rightwingers who will be silent when the fascists start the elimination procedures.

Maybe we could join an online video game group, I like racing Formula 1!
I sigh in your general direction.
gounion
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:15 pm That is a very true statement the union back when it was a labor organization instead of a political organization worked and fought hard to make positive changes in the workplace.

My grandfather was a plant superintendent working the night shift at a place like you described and 2 or 3 times a year he would have to rush people to the ER.
Unions are labor organizations and they are political organizations, always have been, because you can lose rights you gained at the bargaining table with one swipe of a pen of a lawmaker.

Unions are why we have OSHA. Unions are why we have the National Labor Relations Act.

You cannot re-write history. What you just said about unions is a completely false smear.

But then, you don't have a clue to actual history.
ap215
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by ap215 »

October jobs report: Payrolls grew by 531,000 as unemployment rate fell to 4.6%

U.S. employers increased their pace of hiring in October, with declining COVID-19 infections and demand for workers amid widespread shortages helping bolster labor market activity.

The Labor Department released its October jobs report Friday morning. Here were the main metrics from the report, compared to consensus estimates compiled by Bloomberg:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/october- ... 31280.html
Motor City
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by Motor City »

gounion wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:35 pm Tragic. We come to work, we don't come to die.

When I went to work in the aircraft plant in 1979, injuries happened all the time. We had full-time nurses in the shop - and we NEEDED them. One of my friends lost most of his hand in a brake press - only the thumb left. He was 18.

When I became a toolmaker, it seemed no one with seniority had all ten fingers.

Soon OSHA started making a difference, and safety equipment was installed so that the machines wouldn't cycle with hands inside them, and that helped cut down on a lot.

But it wasn't until the union and company agreed to a union/company safety program, where the union could file grievances if needed. They weren't needed, as the company was also committed to a safer workplace. I was involved in it for a year or two, helped get it off the ground. I was proud of the work we did, to make for a safer workplace for everyone. It also saved the company lots of money, too, as injuries are expensive for companies.

And the way to make it safer is to change the culture, and that means EVERYONE needs to be involved.
Yea its dangerous work, safety equipment can malfunction and be bypassed and OSHA is way understaffed as well. injuries and deaths are expensive to the companies in a different way though than they are for the households that bare them. At best they are a nuisance to the company that can be made up in other ways like tax giveaways cuts and abatements.
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gounion
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by gounion »

Motor City wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:13 pm Yea its dangerous work, safety equipment can malfunction and be bypassed and OSHA is way understaffed as well. injuries and deaths are expensive to the companies in a different way though than they are for the households that bare them. At best they are a nuisance to the company that can be made up in other ways like tax giveaways cuts and abatements.
OSHA did a lot of good in the late 70's and early 80's, before Reagan and the GOP started cutting it's funding.

But the company was surprised to learn that making the workplace safer often made workers more productive, too.
ap215
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by ap215 »

‘No more debt beyond our lifetime’ NYC taxi drivers score crucial medallion bailout victory

After weeks of striking and 15 days without food, New York City’s taxi drivers were served a crucial victory as Mayor Bill de Blasio finally agreed to a debt restructuring plan building off an initial program that already eliminated $21.4 million of debt for individual drivers who took out loans to secure their medallions. Two dozen drivers have already had their debt fully forgiven and more than 1,100 have been interviewed to participate in the improved Taxi Medallion Relief Program.

An individual taxi driver in New York City is defined as an owner-driver who has five or fewer medallions. Those drivers owed an average of half a million dollars for their medallions and faced staggering monthly payments that have now been capped at $1,122. The city’s largest lender for medallions, Marblegate, has agreed to “restructure outstanding loans to a principal balance of $200,000, which will be constituted as a $170,000 guaranteed loan, plus a City grant of $30,000,” per a press release. “The terms of the new loan will include a 5% interest rate and a 20-year, fully amortizing term.”

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1 ... ut-victory
gounion
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by gounion »

ap215 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:44 pm ‘No more debt beyond our lifetime’ NYC taxi drivers score crucial medallion bailout victory

After weeks of striking and 15 days without food, New York City’s taxi drivers were served a crucial victory as Mayor Bill de Blasio finally agreed to a debt restructuring plan building off an initial program that already eliminated $21.4 million of debt for individual drivers who took out loans to secure their medallions. Two dozen drivers have already had their debt fully forgiven and more than 1,100 have been interviewed to participate in the improved Taxi Medallion Relief Program.

An individual taxi driver in New York City is defined as an owner-driver who has five or fewer medallions. Those drivers owed an average of half a million dollars for their medallions and faced staggering monthly payments that have now been capped at $1,122. The city’s largest lender for medallions, Marblegate, has agreed to “restructure outstanding loans to a principal balance of $200,000, which will be constituted as a $170,000 guaranteed loan, plus a City grant of $30,000,” per a press release. “The terms of the new loan will include a 5% interest rate and a 20-year, fully amortizing term.”

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1 ... ut-victory
This is something Republican mayors would never have done. They don't give a shit about working people, and they only bail out the ultra-rich.
Bludogdem
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by Bludogdem »

“ Much of the devastation can be traced to a handful of powerful industry leaders who steadily and artificially drove up the price of taxi medallions, creating a bubble that eventually burst. Over more than a decade, they channeled thousands of drivers into reckless loans and extracted hundreds of millions of dollars before the market collapsed.

….The practices were strikingly similar to those behind the housing market crash that led to the 2008 global economic meltdown: Banks and loosely regulated private lenders wrote risky loans and encouraged frequent refinancing; drivers took on debt they could not afford, under terms they often did not understand….Some industry leaders fed the frenzy by purposefully overpaying for medallions in order to inflate prices, The Times found.

….As in the housing crash, government officials ignored warning signs and exempted lenders from regulations. The city Taxi and Limousine Commission went the furthest of all, turning into a cheerleader for medallion sales. It was tasked with regulating the industry, but as prices skyrocketed, it sold new medallions and began declaring they were “better than the stock market.”…At the market’s height, medallion buyers were typically earning about $5,000 a month and paying about $4,500 to their loans, according to an analysis by The Times of city data and loan documents.”


https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... thousands/
Motor City
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by Motor City »

gounion wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:15 pm OSHA did a lot of good in the late 70's and early 80's, before Reagan and the GOP started cutting it's funding.

But the company was surprised to learn that making the workplace safer often made workers more productive, too.
Yea that was good but the jobs and country has regressed back to sweatshop management style and conditions for all but a few. We need more good things a lot more to face Americas sweatshop management style crisis. Look what happened in Houston last night

At least 8 dead, 'scores' more injured at concert during Astroworld Festival in Texas, officials say
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gounion
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by gounion »

Motor City wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:54 pm Yea that was good but the jobs and country has regressed back to sweatshop management style and conditions for all but a few. We need more good things a lot more to face Americas sweatshop management style crisis. Look what happened in Houston last night

At least 8 dead, 'scores' more injured at concert during Astroworld Festival in Texas, officials say
Agreed. The GOP has done everything they can do destroy workplace safety. We have certainly digressed, especially in non-union workplaces.
ap215
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by ap215 »

Wholesale prices rose 8.6% year over year in October, tied for highest ever

Wholesale prices rose 8.6% from a year ago in October, their highest annual pace in records going back nearly 11 years, the Labor Department said Tuesday.

The government’s producer price index, which serves as a gauge of final demand prices from goods producers, rose 0.6% for the month, in line with Dow Jones estimates and an indicator that inflation pressures are continuing to burden the U.S. economy. The monthly pace was faster than the 0.5% increase in September.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/wholesa ... -ever.html
gounion
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:59 pm I have known dozens of people who have again I am taking about here in the real world.
If the employer has a real hard on and wants to go through the process of appeal yes you are correct.
But in most cases I've known of it isn't worth the hassle
I dealt in the real world far more than you do.

It's NOT a hassle, they contact the business when the person applies. If you don't object, your unemployment taxes go up. Your taxes are based upon how many people drew unemployment from you. Now, big companies that have layoffs, they figure it's part of doing business. But small companies always "fire for cause" so they don't have to pay those taxes.
ap215
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by ap215 »

Consumer price index surges 6.2% in October, worse than expected and the highest since December 1990

Inflation across a broad swath of products that consumers buy every day was even worse than expected in October, hitting its highest point in more than 30 years, the Labor Department reported Wednesday.

The consumer price index, which is a basket of products ranging from gasoline and health care to groceries and rents, rose 6.2% from a year ago. That compared to the 5.9% Dow Jones estimate.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/10/consume ... tober.html
ap215
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by ap215 »

Staten Island Amazon workers withdraw attempt to unionize

Workers at an Amazon warehouse in Staten Island, N.Y., have withdrawn their petition for a unionization vote, according to the group leading the effort.

Organizers at the facility said late last month that they gathered more than 2,000 signed cards authorizing the Amazon Labor Union (ALU), an independent organization, to represent them.

https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying ... 20unionize
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Libertas
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by Libertas »

ap215 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:42 am Staten Island Amazon workers withdraw attempt to unionize

Workers at an Amazon warehouse in Staten Island, N.Y., have withdrawn their petition for a unionization vote, according to the group leading the effort.

Organizers at the facility said late last month that they gathered more than 2,000 signed cards authorizing the Amazon Labor Union (ALU), an independent organization, to represent them.

https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying ... 20unionize
Too bad. Amazon will be the end of us.
I sigh in your general direction.
gounion
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by gounion »

Okay, a little technical background on the Amazon effort. First, they require signatures from 30% of the bargaining unite to have a vote. Most unions won't file without over 50%, as usually, if they didn't sign a card, they won't vote, no matter what they tell you.

So they may not have the 30% required.

Secondly, if you have an election and lose, you must wait a full year to have another election. So, if things are momentarily faltering, you are better withdrawing, as you can re-file at any time. Which is what the article says they plan to do.

Third, they mention 150% turnover. Amazon is probably massively hiring to stack the deck against the union. Companies often hire big, telling new hires that if the union fails, they'll have a job, but if the union goes in, they'll be laid off.

Of course, they get rid of them anyway, as they don't need more workers than they did before. Now, that may not be happening here, as help is hard to find for everyone.
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Libertas
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:40 am Okay, a little technical background on the Amazon effort. First, they require signatures from 30% of the bargaining unite to have a vote. Most unions won't file without over 50%, as usually, if they didn't sign a card, they won't vote, no matter what they tell you.

So they may not have the 30% required.

Secondly, if you have an election and lose, you must wait a full year to have another election. So, if things are momentarily faltering, you are better withdrawing, as you can re-file at any time. Which is what the article says they plan to do.

Third, they mention 150% turnover. Amazon is probably massively hiring to stack the deck against the union. Companies often hire big, telling new hires that if the union fails, they'll have a job, but if the union goes in, they'll be laid off.

Of course, they get rid of them anyway, as they don't need more workers than they did before. Now, that may not be happening here, as help is hard to find for everyone.
You are such a wellspring of information about this stuff that we need so badly. I wish I could help. I wish there was a way to have a national movement to unionize all of Amazon.
I sigh in your general direction.
bradman
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Re: Labor/Economics

Post by bradman »

Libertas wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:47 am Too bad. Amazon will be the end of us.
i use Amazon all the time. It makes for a good yellow pages. (remember them?)

Say you're looking for a widget. Go to Amazon and do the search. Up pops 2 pages of widgets. Pick the widget of your liking. Now what you're looking for is the "ships from" and "sold by". Copy and paste "the sold" by on google and whalla ...... you get their web page. Buy from them. :)
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
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