Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

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gounion
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Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by gounion »

This is another one of those. It's bad. 15-year-old white kid uses daddy's gun to shoot up school. Completely premeditated. Parents had been called to the school that morning because of the child's behavior. Parents are refusing to talk to the authorities, using their fifth-amendment rights against self-incriminating.

Parents are Trumpers, of course, and gun nuts.

I am on record on these boards as saying if you own a gun, and a family member uses that gun in a crime, you're complicit. You have a RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that gun doesn't get into the wrong hands.

Watch for the conservatives to start whining about the terrorism charge. They'll bitch about liberals overreacting, just like the bitch when people are hit with civil rights charges for killing blacks.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Number6 »

Part of what makes this story so sad is some of the students at the school heard rumors of possible violence and some parents kept their kids home from school that day because of the rumors. Why didn't the students or parents contact the police and report what they heard?
Oakland County Sheriff Mike Bouchard said the father of the 15-year-old shooting suspect purchased the gun used in the attack — a 9mm Sig Sauer SP 2022 pistol — on Black Friday.

"Someone posted photos of the gun allegedly used at Oxford High School and targets on social media in the days leading up the Tuesday's shooting," the Detroit Free Press reported Wednesday. "Multiple parents told the Free Press that their children enrolled at the school heard rumors of some violence ahead of school Tuesday; some took it seriously enough to prevent their children from attending classes in person."
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by gounion »

I think the fact they were called in that day to the school over issues with the child, and their refusing to cooperate with authorities and taking the fifth speaks volumes.

And not a child any more - going to do adult hard time.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by gounion »

Don't be surprised if the NRA and GOP groups raise money for his defense.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by ProfX »

Here is 2021's tragic stats. And, it's not over yet.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/schoo ... re/2021/03

29 -- School shootings with injuries or deaths
60 -- People killed or injured in a school shooting
11 -- People killed
49 -- People injured
8 -- Students or other children killed
3 -- School employees or other adults killed

Looks like we are going to close out with close to 3 school shootings a month.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Libertas »

ProfX wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:51 pm Here is 2021's tragic stats. And, it's not over yet.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/schoo ... re/2021/03

29 -- School shootings with injuries or deaths
60 -- People killed or injured in a school shooting
11 -- People killed
49 -- People injured
8 -- Students or other children killed
3 -- School employees or other adults killed

Looks like we are going to close out with close to 3 school shootings a month.
They love to tune into the news and see dead kids.

Cons I mean. They must, they go out of their way to ASSURE That it keeps happening so yes, they do.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by carmenjonze »

I see the Daily Flail wasted no time playing the "but he was bullied!!!!" card. :problem:
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Motor City »

Begs the question why are American children turning to militarization and violent mass murder now and so often. We were shocked about it happening with the children in the middle east but now it happens here with similar regularity. what do we learn from both.

Do you think the example of militarization of authorities and how they so violently, brutally solve even minor problems plays a role and the inequality of mass shootings as they involve one person with power over many and many with no power at all.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by carmenjonze »

Motor City wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 pm Begs the question why are American children turning to militarization and violent mass murder now and so often. We were shocked about it happening with the children in the middle east but now it happens here with similar regularity. what do we learn from both.

Do you think the example of militarization of authorities and how they so violently, brutally solve even minor problems plays a role and the inequality of mass shootings as they involve one person with power over many and many with no power at all.
I think it is a combination of this and the latest type of white-vigilante violence.

It's not entirely white conservative males, but it is overwhelmingly white conservative males. So it must be something about that culture, I guess. Also, I'm aware of one mass shooter who was female.

We have a very serious gender violence problem with this country's men.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Number6 »

Motor City wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 pm Begs the question why are American children turning to militarization and violent mass murder now and so often. We were shocked about it happening with the children in the middle east but now it happens here with similar regularity. what do we learn from both.

Do you think the example of militarization of authorities and how they so violently, brutally solve even minor problems plays a role and the inequality of mass shootings as they involve one person with power over many and many with no power at all.
More than likely, it's because there's nothing in place for these kids turn to to help them with their problems. American male culture says men don't cry, we don't ask for help, and we solve our problems ourselves. So when a kid has problems they think are so overwhelming the only way to take care of the problem is to do something stupid like drugs or getting a gun and killing your peers. These kids aren't mature enough to think through the consequences of their actions after they do a school shooting. For them, their problem is "solved" and then reality sets in when they're confronted with the police and/or jail.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by sam lefthand »

Motor City wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 pm Begs the question why are American children turning to militarization and violent mass murder now and so often. We were shocked about it happening with the children in the middle east but now it happens here with similar regularity. what do we learn from both.

Do you think the example of militarization of authorities and how they so violently, brutally solve even minor problems plays a role and the inequality of mass shootings as they involve one person with power over many and many with no power at all.
Motor City I don't know that American children have become more prone to take guns to schools to shoot others since they've been keeping records starting in the 1800's.

Here's a link for the list of school shootings starting in 1840 to 1999:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... th_century

Here's a link for the list of school shootings since 2000:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... ted_States

Obviously there are more shootings with each period of time toward the present, however for each period in time toward the present the population of kids in the schools grow, the number of schools in the country grow. And the number of shells that the average gun can hold have gotten larger.

From looking at these list I don't know that if each period one were to look at were to be normalized for population of students, number of schools, and the number of bullets the average gun can hold, that the problem has substantially gotten all that much worse over that 180 year time period.

It would be the stuff of a lengthy time consuming study to bring together all the data needed do that normalization math, and then analyze the problem in an apple to apple type of reasonable comparison.

It looks to me from a glance and a guess after looking at those raw lists that the per capita kids in the 1800's, the 1900's, and the 2000's are about the same insofar as being equally blood thirsty.

:|

I don't think the kids these days are going to hell in a hand basket any worse today than they ever were.

That's good and bad, and sad.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Motor City »

Number6 wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:26 pm More than likely, it's because there's nothing in place for these kids turn to to help them with their problems. American male culture says men don't cry, we don't ask for help, and we solve our problems ourselves. So when a kid has problems they think are so overwhelming the only way to take care of the problem is to do something stupid like drugs or getting a gun and killing your peers. These kids aren't mature enough to think through the consequences of their actions after they do a school shooting. For them, their problem is "solved" and then reality sets in when they're confronted with the police and/or jail.
The whole idea of consequences these days is hard to understand though because of the way things are so corrupt, all this zero tolerance and everything has a consequence based on whims and whats in it for this group or that.

Doesnt seem to be any example for this generation as to what is proportional justice, economic, security or otherwise and the separation between security and stability and the generations is pretty bizarre also because one group is immune from consequences and want, the other consequences never ends and destroy anything that could be anything positive that could be an alternative to destruction. There is a lot of falseness in the older generations perceptions and use sharing handing down of power and distributions.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Motor City »

being really vague about everything drowning the public in generalities and approximations evading specifics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGCrUvRiz1s
Dozens of schools across suburban Detroit cancelled classes Thursday, two days after four students were killed in a shooting at Oxford High School. The alleged shooter, who is 15, remains held without bail, charged with murder and terrorism. The prosecutor is considering charging his parents, saying their actions went "far beyond negligence," making guns "freely available." John Yang reports.
Oxford High School shooting timeline: What happened before, inside school and afterward
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Glennfs
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:57 pm This is another one of those. It's bad. 15-year-old white kid uses daddy's gun to shoot up school. Completely premeditated. Parents had been called to the school that morning because of the child's behavior. Parents are refusing to talk to the authorities, using their fifth-amendment rights against self-incriminating.

Parents are Trumpers, of course, and gun nuts.

I am on record on these boards as saying if you own a gun, and a family member uses that gun in a crime, you're complicit. You have a RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that gun doesn't get into the wrong hands.

Watch for the conservatives to start whining about the terrorism charge. They'll bitch about liberals overreacting, just like the bitch when people are hit with civil rights charges for killing blacks.
Why does the shooters race matter and as for your last paragraph your liberal white guilt is showing along with your racism as the first thing you thought about was the race of the shooter. That is exactly what a racist does.

Just what crime should the owners of the weapon be charged with in your opinion.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Glennfs »

Motor City wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 pm Begs the question why are American children turning to militarization and violent mass murder now and so often. We were shocked about it happening with the children in the middle east but now it happens here with similar regularity. what do we learn from both.

Do you think the example of militarization of authorities and how they so violently, brutally solve even minor problems plays a role and the inequality of mass shootings as they involve one person with power over many and many with no power at all.
It would be interesting to know how many of these shooters played violent video games involving shooting and killing along with how often and how much they played and at what age did they begin playing violent games
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:54 pm Why does the shooters race matter and as for your last paragraph your liberal white guilt is showing along with your racism as the first thing you thought about was the race of the shooter. That is exactly what a racist does.
Just remember you were almost giddy when it turned out the guy that drove the car that killed the people in the Kenosha parade was black. So look in the mirror when you call people racist.

But the point is these types of pre-meditated killing sprees are almost always done by white males. But you're the one that tries to say blacks are more violent.
Just what crime should the owners of the weapon be charged with in your opinion.
Accessory to murder.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:54 pm Why does the shooters race matter ...
It matters because 1- the vast majority of these shooters are: a) white, b) conservative, c) male, and most importantly, d) all three.

It also matters because 2- there is only one group of people in this country with a centuries-long legacy of committing mass vigilante violence and getting away with it. If you need a starter, check items no. 1a-d, above.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:08 pm Just remember you were almost giddy when it turned out the guy that drove the car that killed the people in the Kenosha parade was black.
Negro crime.

They don't mind putting innocent Black people away, or to death. Not one bit.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:58 pm It would be interesting to know how many of these shooters played violent video games involving shooting and killing along with how often and how much they played and at what age did they begin playing violent games
:problem:

Have you considered how many high schoolers play "violent video games" for all of their free hours in a day on a daily basis, but don't run around mass-murdering their peers? Like, basically every teen in the country?

"Violent video games" are not a good scapegoat for what are clearly deep-seated problems in your sh#tty, amoral, conservative culture.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by ProfX »

Research on this issue has been done. Correlations are pretty much not there. No, playing violent video games isn't the cause.

Just speaking from experience, I played a lot of Dungeons & Dragons as a kid. The tabletop stuff. People back then were warning that this would make kids go out and do violent stuff. Yep, that was me. I roamed through the streets at night, trying to find orcs, dragons, and goblins to kill. Oh wait. They don't exist. My bad. :D

Back in the 50s, people were worried reading comic books would make people go out and do violent and antisocial stuff, led to the creation of the infamous Comics Code. Have we got to rap music yet? :D

There's always something for parents to blame, couldn't possibly have to do with poor parenting or a problematic culture or ... let's wait for it ... this being a society with just too many f'n guns all over the place ... :roll:

On another point, I do think school shootings have always been with us. I'm sure back in the 1800s there were kids angry at a teacher and shot and killed them. Or tried. But yeah, the gun tech has changed. You won't find anybody who went to a school in the early 20th century and mowed down more than a dozen kids with a semi-auto weapon. And yes, I think that is what is different. The rampages are deadlier. "# of shells" but also the ability to fire them rapidly at a crowd of people, too. Press, hold, shred.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:42 am :problem:

Have you considered how many high schoolers play "violent video games" for all of their free hours in a day on a daily basis, but don't run around mass-murdering their peers? Like, basically every teen in the country?

"Violent video games" are not a good scapegoat for what are clearly deep-seated problems in your sh#tty, amoral, conservative culture.

I was wondering if playing those games desensitized some or lead them to want to take thd fantasy to another level.

We can look at people like Roof or the Virginia driver or the Wisconsin driver and know their motivations were hatred and bigotry.
These school shooters seem to have different motivations. I don't know if it's a desire to be infamous or the bullying made them snap or something else.
Maybe if we could find the motivation and there was something common among them we could figure out how to prevent future shootings
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Glennfs »

ProfX wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:05 am Research on this issue has been done. Correlations are pretty much not there. No, playing violent video games isn't the cause.

Just speaking from experience, I played a lot of Dungeons & Dragons as a kid. The tabletop stuff. People back then were warning that this would make kids go out and do violent stuff. Yep, that was me. I roamed through the streets at night, trying to find orcs, dragons, and goblins to kill. Oh wait. They don't exist. My bad. :D

Back in the 50s, people were worried reading comic books would make people go out and do violent and antisocial stuff, led to the creation of the infamous Comics Code. Have we got to rap music yet? :D

There's always something for parents to blame, couldn't possibly have to do with poor parenting or a problematic culture or ... let's wait for it ... this being a society with just too many f'n guns all over the place ... :roll:

On another point, I do think school shootings have always been with us. I'm sure back in the 1800s there were kids angry at a teacher and shot and killed them. Or tried. But yeah, the gun tech has changed. You won't find anybody who went to a school in the early 20th century and mowed down more than a dozen kids with a semi-auto weapon. And yes, I think that is what is different. The rampages are deadlier. "# of shells" but also the ability to fire them rapidly at a crowd of people, too. Press, hold, shred.
Poor parenting is probably a common issue. As for to many guns well couldn't the same argument you made about dungeons and dragons and video game also be applied to guns. Considering the ratio between shootings and the number of guns in our country
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:01 am I was wondering if playing those games desensitized some or lead them to want to take thd fantasy to another level.

We can look at people like Roof or the Virginia driver or the Wisconsin driver and know their motivations were hatred and bigotry.
These school shooters seem to have different motivations. I don't know if it's a desire to be infamous or the bullying made them snap or something else.
Maybe if we could find the motivation and there was something common among them we could figure out how to prevent future shootings
I wasn't talking about "hatred or bigotry," I'm talking about whatever it is you guys do to your male children to keep producing mass murderers. When have you guys every done anything to prevent vigilantism?
Last edited by carmenjonze on Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:08 pm I think the fact they were called in that day to the school over issues with the child, and their refusing to cooperate with authorities and taking the fifth speaks volumes.

And not a child any more - going to do adult hard time.
Hopefully he never again is not locked up.
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Re: Authorities charge Michigan school shooter with Terrorism

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:07 am I wasn't talking about "hatred or bigotry," I'm talking about whatever it is you guys do to your male children to keep producing mass murderers.
That is just wrong and sad that you think in those terms. It is no different than saying what makes inner city blacks ie you guys kill each other.
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