Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

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ProfX
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

Not a mass shooting, but a racist shooting in Ocala.

Calls for woman's arrest grow after the fatal shooting of her neighbor in Florida
The children of the victim, identified as Ajike “AJ” Owens, were playing in Ocala when, attorney Ben Crump said, the woman “began yelling at them to get off her land and calling them racial slurs.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ca ... -rcna87782

Calls are growing for the arrest of a woman accused of shooting her neighbor Friday in Florida in an incident a nationally renowned civil rights attorney described as an “unjustified killing.”

The children of the victim, identified as Ajike “AJ” Owens, were playing in a field near an apartment complex in Ocala when, attorney Ben Crump said, an unidentified white woman, 58, “began yelling at them to get off her land and calling them racial slurs.”

According to Crump’s statement, after the woman yelled slurs at Owens’ children, they accidentally left an iPad behind, which the woman took.

When one of Owens’ children went to retrieve it, she threw it, hitting the boy and cracking the screen. Owens walked across the street to speak to her neighbor after she learned what happened, Crump said.

“She knocked on the door, and at that point, the woman allegedly shot through the door, hitting AJ, who later died from her injuries,” Crump said.

[snip][end]

The neighbor hasn't been arrested because the sheriff wants to makes sure "SYG" doesn't apply.

Well, self defense? From an unarmed woman behind a locked and closed door? She shot her through the door...
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Number6
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Number6 »

Johnny Carson used to say "I kid you not" and this story fits it perfectly. Nikki Haley says the reason for a lot of shootings at schools is because they're in no-gun zones.
In response to a question about mass shootings, she replied: "The reason a lot of these [shootings] happen, and you mention shooting at the schools, is: You need to end gun-free zones...Killers always look for a place that's a gun-free zone, because guess what? Nobody else is going to be able to protect themselves.
https://www.newsweek.com/nikki-haley-to ... ls-1804462
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Glennfs
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:55 pm Johnny Carson used to say "I kid you not" and this story fits it perfectly. Nikki Haley says the reason for a lot of shootings at schools is because they're in no-gun zones.



Is stupidity a mandatory requirement to run for president under the republican banner?

On one hand it was a foolish thing to say

( probably taken out of context)

On the other hand it does show that hanging a sign or passing a law then believing it will have meaning is also foolish.

Case in point cities like Chicago and DC have tough gun laws and are always among the leaders in homicides
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ap215
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ap215 »

Multiple people sent to hospital after mass shooting in downtown Richmond

RICHMOND, Va. (WRIC) — Thirteen people are injured following a reported shooter situation at Altria Theater that took place during Huguenot High School’s graduation ceremony on Tuesday.

The following injuries have been confirmed as a result of the shooting:

https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/ri ... -richmond/
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Number6
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:51 pm On one hand it was a foolish thing to say

( probably taken out of context)

On the other hand it does show that hanging a sign or passing a law then believing it will have meaning is also foolish.

Case in point cities like Chicago and DC have tough gun laws and are always among the leaders in homicides
The purpose of gun free zones is to keep guns out of those areas. Have or use a gun in a gun free zone will subject the individual to criminal prosecution of in the case of a crime using a gun increase the penalties.
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ap215
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ap215 »

Appeals court says people convicted of nonviolent crimes can own guns

The U.S. government cannot ban people convicted of non-violent crimes from possessing guns, a federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday.

The 11-4 ruling from the Philadelphia-based 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is the latest defeat for gun control laws in the wake of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling last year expanding gun rights nationwide.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... -rcna88030
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ProfX
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

I generally agree with that law, although "devil is in the details" as always. For example, is stalking considered a violent crime? It usually isn't, but dunno, I might red flag somebody who has been stalking their neighbor for over a year, even if they (so far) have never touched a hair on their head.

BTW, the woman in Ocala who shot her black neighbor, and I posted about above, has been arrested. Even the Ocala Sheriff wasn't buying what the KKKaren woman was selling, especially as there were witnesses.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:09 am The purpose of gun free zones is to keep guns out of those areas. Have or use a gun in a gun free zone will subject the individual to criminal prosecution of in the case of a crime using a gun increase the penalties.
It would be nice if they would start enforcing those laws. Along with others like unlawful possession and lying on gun applications.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:23 pm It would be nice if they would start enforcing those laws. Along with others like unlawful possession and lying on gun applications.
Saying "It would be nice if they would start enforcing those laws" is feel-nice statement that has no substance. Laws act as a deterrent to prevent people from behaving in an inappropriate manner. For example, there are laws against murder, driving through a red light, and armed robbery and if someone is caught who violated those laws then they'll face the consequences of their actions. The police cannot prevent all crime and in fact they only get involved after a crime. Now, if we were a police state where the police documented everyone's movements and actions and neighbors and friends were required to report unusual behavior of those they know then yes, crime would go down. The fact is we don't live in a police state, thank goodness, and in reality the police only respond to probably 90% after the crime has been committed. In your industry, you've told us some drivers keep dual logs with one showing the time and mileage driven and another with the other a false log with the actual time and mileage driven. It would be nice if they (the police) would start enforcing the laws concerning how long and far truck drivers can drive. But the police aren't stopping every truck and closely checking the accuracy of logs because if they were there wouldn't be a need for dual logs.

In regards to gun-free zones, the police aren't going to be stationed in the zone stopping every car, truck, and person to check if they have a gun. There aren't enough police in the country to do that. So the purpose of the laws concerning gun-free zones is to deter having gun there but if they do catch someone with a gun they will face the consequences.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:06 pm Saying "It would be nice if they would start enforcing those laws" is feel-nice statement that has no substance. Laws act as a deterrent to prevent people from behaving in an inappropriate manner. For example, there are laws against murder, driving through a red light, and armed robbery and if someone is caught who violated those laws then they'll face the consequences of their actions. The police cannot prevent all crime and in fact they only get involved after a crime. Now, if we were a police state where the police documented everyone's movements and actions and neighbors and friends were required to report unusual behavior of those they know then yes, crime would go down. The fact is we don't live in a police state, thank goodness, and in reality the police only respond to probably 90% after the crime has been committed. In your industry, you've told us some drivers keep dual logs with one showing the time and mileage driven and another with the other a false log with the actual time and mileage driven. It would be nice if they (the police) would start enforcing the laws concerning how long and far truck drivers can drive. But the police aren't stopping every truck and closely checking the accuracy of logs because if they were there wouldn't be a need for dual logs.

In regards to gun-free zones, the police aren't going to be stationed in the zone stopping every car, truck, and person to check if they have a gun. There aren't enough police in the country to do that. So the purpose of the laws concerning gun-free zones is to deter having gun there but if they do catch someone with a gun they will face the consequences.
What if there are no consequences? What if the consequences are so meaningless as to be ineffective? Then what? That’s the problem with todays justice system and law enforcement. People get arrested and are released the same day. The same folks commit crime after crime after crime. We have laws. Just no consequences. Consequences make some folks uncomfortable so instead we allow prosecutors and judges to ignore them. So much for law “enforcement”. They aren’t laws anymore. Just suggestions you can follow if you choose.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Motor City »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:12 am What if there are no consequences? What if the consequences are so meaningless as to be ineffective? Then what? That’s the problem with todays justice system and law enforcement. People get arrested and are released the same day. The same folks commit crime after crime after crime. We have laws. Just no consequences. Consequences make some folks uncomfortable so instead we allow prosecutors and judges to ignore them. So much for law “enforcement”. They aren’t laws anymore. Just suggestions you can follow if you choose.
Are your laws just? How is the democracy doing what kind of shape is the democracy in that determines your laws and therefore consequences? How is your economic system is it just? What is a just sequence? Those are the questions that will lead you back to the answers you need.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Number6 »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:12 am What if there are no consequences? What if the consequences are so meaningless as to be ineffective? Then what? That’s the problem with todays justice system and law enforcement. People get arrested and are released the same day. The same folks commit crime after crime after crime. We have laws. Just no consequences. Consequences make some folks uncomfortable so instead we allow prosecutors and judges to ignore them. So much for law “enforcement”. They aren’t laws anymore. Just suggestions you can follow if you choose.
You're making it sound like and other violent criminals are being released shortly after they're arrested which you know they're not. Most people who are arrested or charged with a non-violent crime are granted bail or released on their own recognizance.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

Motor City wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:46 pm Are your laws just? How is the democracy doing what kind of shape is the democracy in that determines your laws and therefore consequences? How is your economic system is it just? What is a just sequence? Those are the questions that will lead you back to the answers you need.
If there is no expectation that laws in a community are to be followed and there is no expectation of consequences should one violate said laws, then we have anarchy. Laws are our shared values and there is a process to change law and a process to adjudicate violations of laws. As members of a community, we should have an expectation that laws will be followed and enforced with consequences. That’s how we keep order. That all breaks down when our elected officials and DA’s and judges decide they can substitute their values in place of the laws enacted by the legislature.

The laws is a framework. That’s where the answers are. If you don’t like the answers, follow the process in place to change the law. That’s how are system works. Or used to work.
JoeMemphis

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

Number6 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:00 pm You're making it sound like and other violent criminals are being released shortly after they're arrested which you know they're not. Most people who are arrested or charged with a non-violent crime are granted bail or released on their own recognizance.
We have known for decades that 80 percent of crime is committed by habitual criminals. The mayor of NYC stated that most of the street crime in NYC was committed by repeat offenders. So if we are locking them up as you claim, how are they reoffending? And it’s crime. If you are a repeat shoplifter, how does it make sense to keep releasing you? I don’t want repeat offenders on the streets. It makes no difference to me if they are committing violent crimes or non violent crimes.

We as citizens have a right to live in safety in our communities free of crime. That’s the goal isn’t it. That includes NOT being victimized violently or nonviolently. Jails will house non violent offenders just as well as they will house violent offenders.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:16 pm We have known for decades that 80 percent of crime is committed by habitual criminals. The mayor of NYC stated that most of the street crime in NYC was committed by repeat offenders. So if we are locking them up as you claim, how are they reoffending? And it’s crime. If you are a repeat shoplifter, how does it make sense to keep releasing you? I don’t want repeat offenders on the streets. It makes no difference to me if they are committing violent crimes or non violent crimes.

We as citizens have a right to live in safety in our communities free of crime. That’s the goal isn’t it. That includes NOT being victimized violently or nonviolently. Jails will house non violent offenders just as well as they will house violent offenders.
So you'd suggest to just make all crimes subject to life sentences, starting as soon as they're brought in for the first one? No bail till trail, then only one sentence possible - life in prison for any and all crimes?

You have a zero tolerance for any and all crime of any sort?

Please, explain.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Motor City »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:09 pm If there is no expectation that laws in a community are to be followed and there is no expectation of consequences should one violate said laws, then we have anarchy. Laws are our shared values and there is a process to change law and a process to adjudicate violations of laws. As members of a community, we should have an expectation that laws will be followed and enforced with consequences. That’s how we keep order. That all breaks down when our elected officials and DA’s and judges decide they can substitute their values in place of the laws enacted by the legislature.

The laws is a framework. That’s where the answers are. If you don’t like the answers, follow the process in place to change the law. That’s how are system works. Or used to work.
Consequence is a negative sequence. If all your sequences are out of whack in the first place then you wont be able to tell the difference, you might put all your confidence trust and hope in things like negative sequences and even feel good about them but without balance they will just pull everyone and everything down with them.

Detroit gas station clerk killed unarmed customer over beef jerky dispute, prosecutors say
Officials say clerk shot customer in head through locked doors

The two men got into an argument when McNary took a beef jerky product and put it in his pocket, officials said. Al-Gaham went through McNary’s pockets, took out the beef jerky, and placed it back on the shelf, according to police.

McNary tried to pay for the beef jerky after the confrontation, but Al-Gaham refused to accept his money, authorities said. Al-Gaham forced McNary to leave the store and manually locked the entrance, preventing McNary from coming back in, police said.

Al-Gaham then pulled out a handgun and fired a shot through the doors at McNary, striking him in the forehead, according to authorities. McNary was not armed, officials said.......
Security inequality
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

Motor City wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:47 pm Consequence is a negative sequence. If all your sequences are out of whack in the first place then you wont be able to tell the difference, you might put all your confidence trust and hope in things like negative sequences and even feel good about them but without balance they will just pull everyone and everything down with them.

Detroit gas station clerk killed unarmed customer over beef jerky dispute, prosecutors say



Security inequality
When you figure out how to have a community without laws/rules, let me know. Negative sequences / positive sequences. Not sure what all that means in your world. I’m a simple man. When the community sets standards and passes laws, the members of that community have a right to expect those laws be followed and enforced. Maybe in your sequenced world that isn’t necessary. I can’t recall a time in history where that’s worked. Maybe you can.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:23 pm When you figure out how to have a community without laws/rules, let me know. Negative sequences / positive sequences. Not sure what all that means in your world. I’m a simple man. When the community sets standards and passes laws, the members of that community have a right to expect those laws be followed and enforced. Maybe in your sequenced world that isn’t necessary. I can’t recall a time in history where that’s worked. Maybe you can.
It's funny how you hate government so damned much and don't want government to tell you what to do, but then you want government to do everything for you. Make up your damned mind.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:32 pm It's funny how you hate government so damned much and don't want government to tell you what to do, but then you want government to do everything for you. Make up your damned mind.
And we all know there has never been a government rule,law or regulation that went to far.
You even supported the 9 trillion dollars inccrese in government spending Biden wanted.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:23 pm And we all know there has never been a government rule,law or regulation that went to far.
You even supported the 9 trillion dollars inccrese in government spending Biden wanted.
As usual, you've got nothing so you try to deflect.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Motor City »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:23 pm When you figure out how to have a community without laws/rules, let me know. Negative sequences / positive sequences. Not sure what all that means in your world. I’m a simple man. When the community sets standards and passes laws, the members of that community have a right to expect those laws be followed and enforced. Maybe in your sequenced world that isn’t necessary. I can’t recall a time in history where that’s worked. Maybe you can.
Yea sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1iQXS0W0_w
Armed Police Raid on Bail Fund for Cop City Opponents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQK2B_Fo0pU
Atlanta City Council Meeting: June 5, 2023
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How can any #Atlanta City Council member vote “YES” on #CopCity funding and live with their conscience after hearing today’s Public Comments, many of which were passionate, love-centered, powerful, and inspiring? #TogetherWeCan #BelovedCommunity #ConscienceOverCopCity
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:23 pm When you figure out how to have a community without laws/rules, let me know. Negative sequences / positive sequences. Not sure what all that means in your world. I’m a simple man. When the community sets standards and passes laws, the members of that community have a right to expect those laws be followed and enforced. Maybe in your sequenced world that isn’t necessary. I can’t recall a time in history where that’s worked. Maybe you can.
Really?

That's how you would approach it?

Until you're willing to try and understand what he's saying i suggest ya go fuck with your favorite poster. :mrgreen:
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JoeMemphis

Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:27 am Really?

That's how you would approach it?

Until you're willing to try and understand what he's saying i suggest ya go fuck with your favorite poster. :mrgreen:
That cuts both ways.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 6:59 am That cuts both ways.
You simply can’t debate at the adult table.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:30 am You simply can’t debate at the adult table.
OMG When was the last time you did. Another flame war attempt.
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