Debt deal reached

News and events of the day
Motor City
Posts: 1802
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:46 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Motor City »

gounion wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:46 am It's hatred when you say you're going to destroy everyone on the other side.

Are trans people sinners?

And as far as literally and figuratively - explain your stance on Maxine Waters.
Reverend Barber weighs in on the current situation
https://twitter.com/RevDrBarber/status/ ... 7106624513
The gospels and the prophets are clear that anything less than a fair wage is sinful and oppressive. Theologians must challenge the issues in our society. Raising wages helps families with basic needs and helps relieve the burden and anxiety caused by extreme poverty.
On the one side of this you have greedy and corrupt business people and legislators on the other side you have people in need and in desperation to survive, and are conditioning peoples access to food aid to whether they give in to the greed that they be exploited and abused and rewarded for their labors with indebtedness and further indebtedness. Anyone could see this is wrong but also playing around with these type of forces of injustice and oppression that hold within them unspeakable horrors and energies is not wise very foolish and cant end well for anyone involved.

Who voted against the debt ceiling bill in the House? These 117 lawmakers opposed it
Image
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Number6 »

The debt ceiling deal passed the House with support from both Democrats and republicans. In the Senate, passage requires 60 votes. If the Senate doesn't pass the bill then what happens next? With June 5th being the deadline does that mean Biden will declare the 14th Amendment prohibits default of the U.S. debts and therefore declare the debit ceiling deal void and the U.S. will carry on as usual?

Biden cannot declare the 14th Amendment in effect because all the Amendments are already in effect so the 14th Amendment being in effect means the law concerning the debt ceiling is unconstitutional and unnecessary.
When you vote left, you vote right.
JoeMemphis

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by JoeMemphis »

I’m happy they found a solution to the current problem. However, this isn’t a solution to the overall debt and deficit problem. More still needs to be done.

The real problem is the long term growth in the size of our debt and deficit and the projected shortfalls in the Social Security and Medicare Trust Funds. Those problems haven’t gotten any easier and haven’t gone away. Sooner or later we as a nation will have to deal with them and the longer we wait the more painful it will be. The smart thing to do would be to begin to address these issues right away but the US government doesn’t get ahead of problems. We wait until they blow up into full blown crisis mode. The whole way we wait until the last minute to deal with raising the debt ceiling is indicative.
Glennfs
Posts: 10300
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:39 am So let's be clear: You consider leftism a sin, correct?
What I posted is called a metaphor it is referred to as speaking metaphorically.

Do you truly not know or can't recognize speaking metaphorical along with the difference between literally and figuratively.

If you can't that's OK it would just show you have the mind of an engineer.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
User avatar
Number6
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:18 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Number6 »

The Senate voted 63-36 to raise the debt ceiling and now awaits Biden's signature.
With just days to spare before the deadline for the nation to face financial default, the Senate approved compromise, bipartisan legislation to lift the debt ceiling. It cleared the chamber by a bipartisan 63-36 vote.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer celebrated an agreement by senators on Thursday to speed up consideration to send the bill to President Biden's desk.

"America can breathe a sigh of relief, a sigh of relief, because in this process, we are avoiding default," Schumer said ahead of a series of votes for the measure. "From the start, avoiding default has been our North Star."

The Senate spent much of the day trying to broker a deal among the chamber's 100 members to speed up the voting schedule. But along the way, Senate leaders maintained confidence the legislation would pass.
https://www.npr.org/2023/06/01/11795505 ... iling-bill
When you vote left, you vote right.
Glennfs
Posts: 10300
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Glennfs »

I wonder how foolish those people feel who said predicted and believed the Republicans were going to trash the country's and world economy.
Instead the Republicans negotiated a deal that will make our economy stronger.
I am guessing they feel very embarrassed and foolish.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
Motor City
Posts: 1802
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:46 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Motor City »

Image
Motor City
Posts: 1802
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:46 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Motor City »

Debt ceiling ruse turned out to just be some bi-partisan austerity and mean spirited nastiness towards the impoverished, and vulnerable on behalf of the rich.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C_8xir7F0s
Tax the Rich
Image
JoeMemphis

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by JoeMemphis »

Motor City wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:43 am Debt ceiling ruse turned out to just be some bi-partisan austerity and mean spirited nastiness towards the impoverished, and vulnerable on behalf of the rich.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C_8xir7F0s
Tax the Rich
I understand the austerity as the National Debt is growing out of control. What exactly do you think is mean spirited?
bradman
Posts: 2542
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
Location: Home of the DFL

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:48 pm I understand the austerity as the National Debt is growing out of control. What exactly do you think is mean spirited?
The assault on freedom from want, and freedom from fear, is what's mean spirited.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
JoeMemphis

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:24 pm The assault on freedom from want, and freedom from fear, is what's mean spirited.
Sorry but I’ll bet those words aren’t mentioned in the legislation. That’s somebody’s representation or opinion. Based on what? What in the legislation is mean spirited? Any specifics? Because if the explanation is some vague reference to Jefferson then someone hasn’t made a case.

Hope you had a good ride this weekend.
bradman
Posts: 2542
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
Location: Home of the DFL

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:44 pm Sorry but I’ll bet those words aren’t mentioned in the legislation. That’s somebody’s representation or opinion. Based on what? What in the legislation is mean spirited? Any specifics? Because if the explanation is some vague reference to Jefferson then someone hasn’t made a case.

Hope you had a good ride this weekend.
[bold] First, i'd have to figure out what the hell you meant by that. Keep in mind i haven't been following the thread.


i haven't run into a bad ride yet. :D
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
JoeMemphis

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:56 pm [bold] First, i'd have to figure out what the hell you meant by that. Keep in mind i haven't been following the thread.


i haven't run into a bad ride yet. :D
I used to say that about the lake. I never had a bad day at the lake.

I thought (maybe mistakenly) that the reference of “freedom from want” or “freedom from fear” came from Jefferson. Maybe it was some other old dead guy from history. I dunno. I’m just trying to figure out what was so mean spirited.

IMO, this is just a scratch on the real problem. We are spending much more than we are taking in and we are growing our debt faster than we are growing the economy. That’s unsustainable. Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid Trust Funds will run out in the next 10 years or so. So NOT figuring those problems out and kicking that can down the road is what I find mean spirited. And reckless.

But those problems won’t get discussed because there aren’t easy answers. What was decided in this latest debt deal is easy compared to what’s coming.
bradman
Posts: 2542
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
Location: Home of the DFL

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:07 pm I used to say that about the lake. I never had a bad day at the lake.

I thought (maybe mistakenly) that the reference of “freedom from want” or “freedom from fear” came from Jefferson. Maybe it was some other old dead guy from history. I dunno. I’m just trying to figure out what was so mean spirited.

IMO, this is just a scratch on the real problem. We are spending much more than we are taking in and we are growing our debt faster than we are growing the economy. That’s unsustainable. Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid Trust Funds will run out in the next 10 years or so. So NOT figuring those problems out and kicking that can down the road is what I find mean spirited. And reckless.

But those problems won’t get discussed because there aren’t easy answers. What was decided in this latest debt deal is easy compared to what’s coming.
The conversation is going on here...
viewtopic.php?p=61214#p61214

Minus the flame war, you kinda started the conversation at the top of page 4.

Here's to lakes and rides. The things that make life worth living.

Cheers.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
JoeMemphis

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:20 pm The conversation is going on here...
viewtopic.php?p=61214#p61214

Minus the flame war, you kinda started the conversation at the top of page 4.

Here's to lakes and rides. The things that make life worth living.

Cheers.
To Lakes and rides.

I dunno about mean spirited in the debt ceiling deal. Nobody got everything they wanted and in the end, in the big picture, it didn’t move the needle much as far as solving problems. IMO it was a baby step but I guess you have to start somewhere.
bradman
Posts: 2542
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 am
Location: Home of the DFL

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by bradman »

JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:22 pm To Lakes and rides.

I dunno about mean spirited in the debt ceiling deal. Nobody got everything they wanted and in the end, in the big picture, it didn’t move the needle much as far as solving problems. IMO it was a baby step but I guess you have to start somewhere.
The senile old bastard isn't as senile as some thought, eh. :mrgreen:

mean spirited> Consider the source and then thank our lucky stars that there are people like that amongst us.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
Glennfs
Posts: 10300
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Glennfs »

bradman wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:34 pm The senile old bastard isn't as senile as some thought, eh. :mrgreen:

mean spirited> Consider the source and then thank our lucky stars that there are people like that amongst us.
The deal was done by people negotiating for Biden and McCarthy. Biden might not be senile but he is definitely suffering from old age mental decline. He should not be running for reelection and any credible democrat could easily defeat him in a primary.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
JoeMemphis

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by JoeMemphis »

bradman wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:34 pm The senile old bastard isn't as senile as some thought, eh. :mrgreen:

mean spirited> Consider the source and then thank our lucky stars that there are people like that amongst us.
I dunno what his mental capacity might happen to be. As I said, it didn’t do all that much to solve the larger problem. They are all kicking the can down the road. The larger problem remains and grows even larger with every passing day. Someday we and some unlucky bastard who happens to sit in the oval are going to be forced to deal with what these brave men and women we elected have been so anxious to ignore.
Glennfs
Posts: 10300
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Glennfs »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:51 am I dunno what his mental capacity might happen to be. As I said, it didn’t do all that much to solve the larger problem. They are all kicking the can down the road. The larger problem remains and grows even larger with every passing day. Someday we and some unlucky bastard who happens to sit in the oval are going to be forced to deal with what these brave men and women we elected have been so anxious to ignore.

While I know this is an over simplification but if they would just freeze spending increases to 50 to 75pct of the rate of inflation it seems in less than a decade the problem would be solved.

Remember the austerity program the Republicans forced on Obama. Two years later those opposed to it were praising Obama for deficit reduction.

Under Reagan revenues doubled, proving the cliche that we don't have a revenue problem we have a spending problem.

The sacrifices every generation has made other than our generation were far worse than our country living within its means for 5 to 10 years.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
JoeMemphis

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by JoeMemphis »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:10 pm While I know this is an over simplification but if they would just freeze spending increases to 50 to 75pct of the rate of inflation it seems in less than a decade the problem would be solved.

Remember the austerity program the Republicans forced on Obama. Two years later those opposed to it were praising Obama for deficit reduction.

Under Reagan revenues doubled, proving the cliche that we don't have a revenue problem we have a spending problem.

The sacrifices every generation has made other than our generation were far worse than our country living within its means for 5 to 10 years.
The problem we have is that there is no budgetary or spending discipline in either party. All the fixes are temporary fixes. There is no long view. It’s not money but rather just numbers on a page. That’s the view of those in power of both parties. But it’s not a realistic view.

They don’t look beyond the next midterm election. That’s all that matters. Everything is a crisis brought on primarily from our inabaility to deal realistically with our problems on a timely basis. We just go from one crisis to another.
Glennfs
Posts: 10300
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Glennfs »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:40 pm The problem we have is that there is no budgetary or spending discipline in either party. All the fixes are temporary fixes. There is no long view. It’s not money but rather just numbers on a page. That’s the view of those in power of both parties. But it’s not a realistic view.

They don’t look beyond the next midterm election. That’s all that matters. Everything is a crisis brought on primarily from our inabaility to deal realistically with our problems on a timely basis. We just go from one crisis to another.
Even though spending comes from the House IMO one of the dumbest things our lawmakers ever done was changing the senate from appointed to elected.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
User avatar
ProfX
Posts: 4087
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:15 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by ProfX »

The process for repealing the 17th amendment ... well, that's in the Constitution, too.

Get cracking. :D

I'm way more ticked off by Citizens United, but so it goes. Not that they have to get elected by the people (previously they were picked in the "smoke filled back rooms" in the secret sides of state legislatures, so corrupt a process the phrase became a meme), but that they are bought by corporations.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
Glennfs
Posts: 10300
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Glennfs »

ProfX wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:09 pm The process for repealing the 17th amendment ... well, that's in the Constitution, too.

Get cracking. :D

I'm way more ticked off by Citizens United, but so it goes. Not that they have to get elected by the people (previously they were picked in the "smoke filled back rooms" in the secret sides of state legislatures, so corrupt a process the phrase became a meme), but that they are bought by corporations.
It created lifetime Senator's who are rarely challenged and all retire wealthy.
People who went into politics to do good and did very well.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
gounion
Posts: 17240
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:10 pm While I know this is an over simplification but if they would just freeze spending increases to 50 to 75pct of the rate of inflation it seems in less than a decade the problem would be solved.

Remember the austerity program the Republicans forced on Obama. Two years later those opposed to it were praising Obama for deficit reduction.

Under Reagan revenues doubled, proving the cliche that we don't have a revenue problem we have a spending problem.

The sacrifices every generation has made other than our generation were far worse than our country living within its means for 5 to 10 years.
None of this is true. Revenues didn't double during the Reagan administration. Reagan's tax cuts were so bad he had to go in and raise taxes himself. And Reagan had a spending problem, he spent like a drunken sailor.

Let's be clear: Of all the years that the GOP had control of Congress and the Senate, they NEVER put in a budget that was lower than the year before. The ONLY time the deficit went down was when the Dems raised taxes and revenue without one GOP vote. When GW Bush took over, he cut taxes and spent like a drunken sailor and started the huge trajectory of debt. And the King of Debt Donald Trump doubled the debt in his four years. It went up more under Trump than every President in history - combined.
Glennfs
Posts: 10300
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Re: Debt deal reached

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:35 pm None of this is true. Revenues didn't double during the Reagan administration. Reagan's tax cuts were so bad he had to go in and raise taxes himself. And Reagan had a spending problem, he spent like a drunken sailor.

Let's be clear: Of all the years that the GOP had control of Congress and the Senate, they NEVER put in a budget that was lower than the year before. The ONLY time the deficit went down was when the Dems raised taxes and revenue without one GOP vote. When GW Bush took over, he cut taxes and spent like a drunken sailor and started the huge trajectory of debt. And the King of Debt Donald Trump doubled the debt in his four years. It went up more under Trump than every President in history - combined.
During Reagan's 8 years revenue went up by an average of over 15pct a year.

To get Trump's true numbers you need to take out the virus years. But, they were still to high.

However if we as a nation would just sacrifice for 5 to 10 years we would no longer have a deficit problem.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
Post Reply