Ukraine

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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

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bradman
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Re: Ukraine

Post by bradman »

Number6 wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:20 pm It appears Ukraine is giving Russia a taste of what an attack on Russia soil is like when Ukraine used small drones to attack Russian bases.
It's a risk and one of the reasons the west has not supplied Ukraine with long range missiles.
If Russia continues to target electric systems in Ukraine forcing the country into a cold winter without electricity then would Ukraine strike, with drone, at electric substations near Moscow or other cities?
With somewhere around 70% Russian support for the war in Ukraine it'd be to much of a risk. Keep it to Military targets. In particular, the Russian bases that are attacking Ukraine's power grids.
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Number6
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Re: Ukraine

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bradman wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:31 pm It's a risk and one of the reasons the west has not supplied Ukraine with long range missiles.



With somewhere around 70% Russian support for the war in Ukraine it'd be to much of a risk. Keep it to Military targets. In particular, the Russian bases that are attacking Ukraine's power grids.
I agree Ukraine should stick to military targets in Russia. If I was advising Ukraine I tell them to hack Russian email and social media account with pictures and names of dead Russian soldiers with the message "Please tell Putin we're tired of killing his soldiers."
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Re: Ukraine

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https://news.yahoo.com/russia-blames-uk ... 26768.html
Russia blames Ukraine for 3rd drone strike on airbase in 2 days
Attacks continued to batter Russian infrastructure on Tuesday, as another drone strike targeted an airfield in the country's Kursk region, Axios reported. This marks the third reported drone strike on a Russian military base in the past two days.

"An oil storage tank caught fire near Kursk airfield as a result of a drone attack," Kursk regional Governor Roman Starovoit said, per Politico. "There were no casualties. The fire is being localized. All special services are working at the site."

The airfield is reportedly about 60 miles from the Ukrainian border.
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Re: Ukraine

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Number6 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:28 pm I agree Ukraine should stick to military targets in Russia. If I was advising Ukraine I tell them to hack Russian email and social media account with pictures and names of dead Russian soldiers with the message "Please tell Putin we're tired of killing his soldiers."
Along with images of bombed out Ukrainian hospitals, schools, residential areas and tell them if they keep it up like this what you see very well could be coming to a neighborhood near you.

Seems to me Ukraine is getting ready for a winter move.
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ap215
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ap215 »

Zelensky named Time magazine Person of the Year

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was named Time magazine’s Person of the Year on Wednesday after being one of 10 individuals or groups placed on a shortlist earlier this week.

Zelensky has led Ukraine as it has worked to hold off a full-scale Russian invasion of the country since late February, becoming a leader on the world stage. He has overseen a series of victories in the war that has largely halted Russia from advancing and allowed Ukraine to retake captured territory.

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... -the-year/
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Re: Ukraine

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bradman wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:19 pm Along with images of bombed out Ukrainian hospitals, schools, residential areas and tell them if they keep it up like this what you see very well could be coming to a neighborhood near you.

Seems to me Ukraine is getting ready for a winter move.
I thought of that too but I'd suggest they list them as Russian hospitals, schools, and residential areas and then at the end of the pictures apologize and and tell them these are Ukrainian.
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Re: Ukraine

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Number6 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:20 pm I thought of that too but I'd suggest they list them as Russian hospitals, schools, and residential areas and then at the end of the pictures apologize and and tell them these are Ukrainian.
Sounds even better.
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Re: Ukraine

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"I need ammunition, not a ride".


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Not bad considering some thought he was a joke when first elected. Even i was wondering, wtf?
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ZoWie »

Well yeah, it does mean a bonanza for US merchants of death, and yes, it means arming NATO and turning Europe back into a nuclear standoff with periodic doomsday crises. It also makes oil more expensive, like everything else seems to do, and it causes yet another supply chain interruption for things like grain, which we needed about as much as a new pandemic.

I'm hard put to find alternatives. Putin's expressed intent is to reconquer eastern Europe. In his propaganda, he calls himself the new Peter the Great. Now, I would love to be able to organize marches and put millions of people in the street saying ENOUGH, while at the same time forging alliances with various military personnel that make clear that we know they are not the problem, and that we march against the civilians who give the orders, not the grunts who have to carry them out.

This, of course, has been done many times before, and usually succeeded after a decade or two of bad feelings, broken friendships, and the occasional violent street confrontation.

It has always been worth it, but something seems different this time. This time the president of the US didn't unilaterally declare war. He just created a back door right into Putin's oligarchy, and when this door closed, the next president got stuck having to fight the war.

On the brighter side, I notice that we got our women's basketball star back from Russia today. We didn't have to give them back a master spy in exchange, just a dangerous international arms merchant.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ZoWie »

I am hard put to find any good ways out of a bad situation. I'm not going to attack Biden for inheriting a mess that TFG started. I do understand that, of course, since the actual shooting started on Biden's watch when Putin realized he couldn't control the US executive branch, Putin's best remaining alternative was to stick Biden with the war. It seems clear that probably the last thing Biden wanted to be was a war president, but history is a bitch-goddess on a good day and a mine field on a bad one, which this is.

Of course he's going to get blamed for it, because that's how Americans think. Historical awareness has never been this country's strong suit. Had it been, there would have been no Indochina and Middle Eastern neocolonial wars to kill a lot of Americans and divide the country into its current armed standoff between two completely antithetical political analyses.

May I suggest a coalition? We can agree to disagree on Biden's role in creating the mess, and work together to think of practical ways to stop it before it gets the planet transformed into a radioactive cinder.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ZoWie »

Seriously, right now I can think of no way to continue the present mess without it ending up in something nobody really wants to do, up to and including human extinction. Tit for tat exchanges with escalating attacks in Russia are the worst thing right now, and it's time to get serious about stopping the leaders of both sides from killing us all.
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ProfX
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Re: Ukraine

Post by ProfX »

Biden and his admin will not provide them with long range missiles that can strike inside Russia. I think that's the right policy.

Unfortunately, this is not stopping them from using drones or any munitions they might have that can do it anyway.

Personally, I hope they don't "tit for tat" and strike Russian civilian infrastructure. Russian public opinion is starting to turn against the war, and that will only give Putin help he shouldn't get.

But, I don't advise the Ukrainian gov't.

I do think Zelensky was a great choice for Time's Man of the Year.

I am not against continuing to provide Ukraine with defensive weapons. The option to end the war is on the invading, occupying force. I would be willing to negotiate on autonomy for the Donbass and Crimea, but as I said, I neither am part of nor advise the gov't of Ukraine.
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Re: Ukraine

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Yes, he was hands-down the best choice. TIME would have been derelict in picking anyone else.

Hey, it just hit me. Finally a positive outcome to an entertainer entering politics. Better than the US has ever managed to do.

I hate to bring up that Dogs of War thing again, but even in Shakespeare's time people got it that one started wars at their own extreme peril. This time, some professor got Putin thinking that he could conquer everything that was in Europe and not in NATO, and he went for it when he lost his patsy in the White House and couldn't do it through subversion and attrition. The GOP wants us all to forget that, and just blame Biden for everything bad that happens, since the landmines planted on TFG's watch didn't go off until Joe's.

The unpleasant fact remains, centuries later, that once the Dogs of War are loose, they bite anyone they want to. Ask Lyndon Johnson, if you can find a good spirit whisperer.

At this point, one misstep and there will be no people. Maybe the cockroaches will survive.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

Russia, America put trust in campaign of terror and prolonging terror to achieve political, economic goals, while condemning its use by others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrmWpI_s7rc
With the war in Ukraine now in its 10th month, Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Joe Biden have both expressed openness to peace talks to end the fighting, as have leaders in France, Germany and elsewhere.

This comes as millions of Ukrainians brace for a winter without heat or electricity due to Russian strikes on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure. "This war needs to end because it's a disaster for everybody, a threat to the whole world," says economist and foreign policy scholar Jeffrey Sachs, director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University.

He says four major issues need to be addressed to end the war: Ukraine's sovereignty and security, NATO enlargement, the fate of Crimea and the future of the Donbas region.
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Re: Ukraine

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1. "The war is a disaster... for the whole world."

True.

We can't afford these wars of aggression in support of geopolitics any more. We really never could, but after the Republicans globalized the economy, now we really can't. As we've seen, it's going to be a disaster for everyone every time. Just when the covid was easing, the war caused the same problems only worse.

2. "Russia, America put trust in campaign of terror"

Also true. It is the nature of modern geopolitics that war is in the mix, but usually through proxies. In Vietnam it was the Communist bloc support for the VC that got American involvement to prop up the Diem government which no one but maybe the Michelin rubber cartel really wanted. So we killed some ridiculous number of Americans, napalmed miles of forest, defoliated the rest, alienated an entire generation from politics, devastated an entire region, caused diseases that we're still dealing with, and lost anyway.

Then we tried the same thing in the Middle East. A Democratic president took out Bin Laden with one ground op. Plan, execute, leave, then tell the Nooz what happened. Everything else, mostly concocted by Republicans to re-establish the oil cartel, was a dismal failure.

The media jumped on the George I's liberation of Kuwait (and its oil), causing years of celebration that war was fun again, but in the long run, well it wasn't fun after all (duh!). George II started another Iraq spectacle, invading the one country in the region that had nothing to do with 9/11, and briefly lowered the price of oil in the process. The major remaining image from that whole bloody debacle is a photo of US National Guard bozos assigned to a prison detail torturing some guy who probably hadn't done anything except look too much like a Muslim.

Some number of dismal years later, after more dead Americans for nothing, Afghanistan lost the will to fight. Its army surrendered en masse soon as we cut our support. Drumpf, in perhaps the only shrewd move of his presidency, dropped a heads I win tails you lose proposition on the Democrats. If he'd been re-elected, he'd have gotten credit for ending the war, never mind the fact that we accomplished absolutely nothing. If he wasn't (the outcome that actually happened, his rantings to the contrary), well it's all Biden's fault. Media jump on board, they always do, and mission accomplished.

Now we get to watch Saudi Arabia try to manipulate our elections.

Putin for whatever reason decided Ukraine should be part of Russia again. Say, how's that going, Vlad?

Meanwhile you can't sort out the problems caused by covid from the ones caused by the side effects of his war.

People....... wars of aggression are not the way. I don't care what Rome did before the Christian epoch. Guts and glory are over now. Winning a ground war is like winning an earthquake.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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Re: Ukraine

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The "New" Voice of Ukraine. It's been a sketchy site from the beginning.

Apparently, Stalin did not "remove" enuf Tartar's...........

https://english.nv.ua/nation/ukrainian- ... 90176.html
Ukrainian partisans take responsibility for setting fire to Russian barracks in Crimea
The guerrilla movement ATESH (Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars Movement) claimed responsibility for setting fire to a barracks in Crimea, where mobilized Russians were probably stationed, ATESH announced via Telegram messenger on Dec. 10.
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

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https://twitter.com/FORpeace/status/1603494352894164993
Join @RevDrBarber, @FORpeace and interfaith leaders in calling for a TRUCE in Ukraine!
https://forusa.org/ukraine/
1000 Faith Leaders Call for a Christmas Truce in Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fW8LPDVwKI
A diverse and quickly growing coalition of nearly 1,000 faith leaders in the United States–representing a massive number of believers from every major tradition–have signed onto a Christmas Truce statement demanding a temporary ceasefire in the War in Ukraine.

Spiritual leaders from across the spectrum of faith communities and a diversity of ideological perspectives have become signatories in recognition of the fact that the way out of the war in Ukraine will not be a military solution. They have signed on with the belief that a temporary ceasefire offers an opportunity for moral clarity that could be the first step toward a negotiated peace.

Signers include Bishop William J. Barber II, president of Repairers of the Breach; Dr. Cornel West, Union Theological Seminary; Rev. Jesse Jackson, Rainbow Push Coalition; Rev. Liz Theoharis, Director of the Kairos Center for Religion; Rabbi Arthur Waskow, Jewish Renewal movement; Mary Novak, Executive Director of NETWORK Lobby for Catholic Social Justice; Thay Phap An, the Plum Village Buddhist community; Rev. Wesley Granberg-Michaelson, General Secretary Emeritus, Reformed Church in America; Rev. Jim Wallace, Georgetown Center on Faith and Justice; (a full list is available here forusa.org/ukraine).

“As the war in Ukraine drags into to its 10th month, the only certainty is that the estimated hundreds of thousands killed and wounded will continue to grow, as will the 14 million war refugees not to mention the humanitarian impacts felt across Europe and the globe” said Ariel Gold, executive director of the Fellowship of Reconciliation USA, the oldest interfaith peace organization in the United States.

“Negotiation is not a euphemism for capitulation, nor is it a rationalization of Putin’s aggression,” said Medea Benjamin, cofounder of the peace group CODEPINK. “It is simply a recognition that the end of this war cannot be achieved by more war. Any prospect for a pause in hostilities should be acted on.”

Initiated by the Fellowship of Reconciliation, USA, the National Council of Elders, CODEPINK and the Peace in Ukraine Coalition, the Christmas truce for Ukraine, is inspired by the miraculous Christmas truce of 1914, in which 100,000 German and British soldiers ceased fire and participated in a brief and spontaneous peace along the Western Front. Emerging from their trenches, soldiers ventured into the “no man’s land” where they shared food and drink; they sang Christmas carols and even played soccer together. It was a potent example of how the human spirit can be a powerful force that transcends hate and division in the promotion of peace.

The signers of the statement hope to meet with and petition the Biden administration to ask them to take a leadership role in pushing for a negotiated settlement that brings the war to an end, greatly lessening the danger of nuclear war and mass, if not total, annihilation. The statement reads:


“As people of faith and conscience, believing in the sanctity of all life on this planet, we call for a Christmas Truce in Ukraine. In the spirit of the truce that occurred in 1914 during the First World War, we urge our government to take a leadership role in bringing the war in Ukraine to an end through supporting calls for a ceasefire and negotiated settlement, before the conflict results in a nuclear war that could devastate the world’s ecosystems and annihilate all of God’s creation.”

Campaign organizers will also be rolling out online resources (forusa.org/ukrainemedia) that houses of worship and community groups nationwide can access to promote this prayer for peace and encourage grassroots promotion of the need to cease the violence and pursue a negotiated settlement.

“Whether it’s Christians around the world preparing for Christmas or Jews getting ready to celebrate the commemoration of the miracle of Hanukkah, all of the Abrahamic faiths embrace the prophetic voice of Isaiah who exhorted us to transform swords into plowshares,” said Zoharah Simmons from the National Council of Elders. “As we enter this winter holiday filled with prayers for peace and liberation, we are praying and acting for the same kind of miracle that over a century ago compelled the soldiers of WWI to put down their weapons and celebrate peace.”
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Toonces
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Toonces »

I would certainly not agree to a Christmas truce with Russia. Or, at the very least, assume they're going to break the truce which they would absolutely do.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by bradman »

Toonces wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:22 pm I would certainly not agree to a Christmas truce with Russia. Or, at the very least, assume they're going to break the truce which they would absolutely do.
A Christmas truce would only delay the inevitable. Given Putin, that's just a cold hard fact. Reality says, any delay will benefit Putin.
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

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Zelensky urges Putin to embrace 'peace' and withdraw troops from Ukraine at Christmas
Volodymyr Zelensky issued his plea almost ten months after the Russian invasion.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Ukraine's President, has urged Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin to show he is "capable of giving up aggression" by calling a Christmas truce - telling the G7 group of world leaders including UK PM Rishi Sunak the festive season is a time when “normal people think about peace". .......
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bradman
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Re: Ukraine

Post by bradman »

i've been digging on Reuters. For "breaking" news (to beat the twits)they'll now put out something short like this...........

https://news.yahoo.com/putin-arrives-be ... 08351.html
Reuters Videos
Putin arrives in Belarus for talks with Lukashenko


While the "twitter" news is in hyper drive with speculation..........There are news sites like Reuters that are trying to maintain "newsworthy" articles.

#FuckTwitter.
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Drak
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Drak »

Zelensky is at the WH today meeting with President Biden where he will receive more military aid and the Patriot missile system.

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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGg7Ss1x7wA
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy addressed Congress during his first known trip outside of Ukraine since Russia invaded about 10 months ago. He delivered his remarks in English, where he thanked the U.S. for its help in the fight against Russia, and for "all those who value freedom and justice."
How strange

Pope warns Vatican staff an 'elegant demon' lurks among them
...."There isn't only the violence of weapons, there is verbal violence, psychological violence, the violence of abuse of power, the hidden violence of gossip," Francis said, in a possible reference to a new case of abuse of authority that is roiling his own Jesuit order. “Don't take advantage of your own position and role to mortify the other.".....

....“Before, it appeared rough and violent, now it shows up as elegant and refined,” he warned. “We need to realize that and once again to unmask it. That is how these ‘elegant demons’ are: they enter smoothly, without our even being conscious of them," he said.....

.....“They had cast out the demon, but he had returned seven times stronger, and under the guise of austerity and rigor, he had introduced rigidity and the presumption that they were better than others,” Francis warned.......
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Motor City
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Motor City »

Rather than seeking an end to the war United States seeking a way to aid and prolong war on Mothers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31ecWsGJHg

Every Soldier is a Mother’s Son
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