Boeing

[gounion]

The NYSE is not a casino and in all likelihood it is where your union has most of your funds invested. In fact directly or indirectly all of your funds are either invested in the market or tied to the market.

Depends upon what stock you’re buying, You say that Trump’s Truth Social isn’t wild speculation?

The Dot Com era had lots of scams pretending to be investments. What about Theranos?

[ZoWie]

The NYSE is a means of funding corporations by promising growth on investments. It's not a casino because the house takes a much smaller share. The odds are somewhat less rigged, though it can still be a crapshoot when politicians screw up.

The actual structure of any exchange is complicated, full of "market makers" and lots of government regulations, though it's gotten a lot more electronic in the past few years. NASDAQ is completely run by computers. The people on TV supposedly pushing the button to end the day's trading are in a window overlooking Times Square. NYSE still has that big building on Wall Street, and it still bothers to ring a bell and bang a gavel. They're not kidding anyone because after they dropped floor traders that whole huge building became basically a TV backdrop. They invited channels to do their programs live from an empty floor that used to have hundreds of people running around. Now, it's lights, camera, cue the talking heads.

[Glennfs]

Depends upon what stock you’re buying, You say that Trump’s Truth Social isn’t wild speculation?

The Dot Com era had lots of scams pretending to be investments. What about Theranos?

Yes and no. If you buy it now and he wins you are going to turn a profit
If you wait until election day and he loses. Then you short the stock and make a profit

It definitely is a gamble as a long term investment.

The fact remains is you can pick any date in history and take that same date 10 years later and you will find that the DJIA has increased.

[gounion]

Yes and no. If you buy it now and he wins you are going to turn a profit
If you wait until election day and he loses. Then you short the stock and make a profit

It definitely is a gamble as a long term investment.

The fact remains is you can pick any date in history and take that same date 10 years later and you will find that the DJIA has increased.

You may not know this but there’s a difference between investment and speculation. Truth Social is not an investment because they have lost millions and have no way to ever make money.

[Greengrass]

Yes and no. If you buy it now and he wins you are going to turn a profit
If you wait until election day and he loses. Then you short the stock and make a profit

It definitely is a gamble as a long term investment.

The fact remains is you can pick any date in history and take that same date 10 years later and you will find that the DJIA has increased.

Not true. 1966 to 1976, 1972 to 1982, and 1998 to 2008.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jo ... ical-chart

[Glennfs]

Not true. 1966 to 1976, 1972 to 1982, and 1998 to 2008.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jo ... ical-chart

Not year date BTW in 76 the DJIA hit 1000 for the first time.

[JoeMemphis]

Well, our union staff pension fund has done quite well, with only the union running it.

HAVING SAID THAT - I like both sides having a say. The problem with the company-only funds is that the companies consider it slush funds, and also, if it’s overfunded, then they stop putting money in and take the money to the casino to keep from putting money in. Then, if the market tanks, they just say “well, we need to shut the pension down now because we gambled it away”.

I call bullshit on such scenarios.

Most important thing is the fund should be well-regulated by government entities so that you CAN’T invest it in high-risk gambling.

And you probably don’t know how unions are funded, do you?

Well you make my point for me. Your union managed fund is doing well. You don’t trust company managed funds. Companies don’t want to manage your pension funds. So sounds to me like the perfect solution for everyone is for unions to manage pensions funds for their members. Union members get what they want and companies aren’t responsible for the legacy costs of pension funds.

What’s not to like?

[gounion]

Well you make my point for me. Your union managed fund is doing well. You don’t trust company managed funds. Companies don’t want to manage your pension funds. So sounds to me like the perfect solution for everyone is for unions to manage pensions funds for their members. Union members get what they want and companies aren’t responsible for the legacy costs of pension funds.

What’s not to like?

So you recommend that the companies fund pensions that the union administers? Really?

[JoeMemphis]

So you recommend that the companies fund pensions that the union administers? Really?

If I am a company that’s agreed to a defined benefit pension plan, then I would recommend funding it with every payroll as long as the union manages the plan and is responsible for any overages and shortfalls thereof. The company fixes its cost and meets it with every payroll. The union is responsible to its members for the performance thereafter.

[gounion]

If I am a company that’s agreed to a defined benefit pension plan, then I would recommend funding it with every payroll as long as the union manages the plan and is responsible for any overages and shortfalls thereof. The company fixes its cost and meets it with every payroll. The union is responsible to its members for the performance thereafter.

Wow, okay. As long as it's not the Teamsters, I'm good with it!

Let's remember that unions are far more regulated than businesses. They have to be honest, business doesn't.

[JoeMemphis]

Wow, okay. As long as it's not the Teamsters, I'm good with it!

Let's remember that unions are far more regulated than businesses. They have to be honest, business doesn't.

[gounion]

Oh? Well, we're talking about Boeing in this thread. When a union leader is crooked, they go to jail. Here, Boeing officials caused the deaths of hundreds, covered up the cause, and lied in testimony to regulators. They've tanked their business and hurt their stockholders. And who does Glenn blame? The greedy workers, of course.

And the CEO that set this all up? Why, he got thirty million dollars to leave.

[Glennfs]

Oh? Well, we're talking about Boeing in this thread. When a union leader is crooked, they go to jail. Here, Boeing officials caused the deaths of hundreds, covered up the cause, and lied in testimony to regulators. They've tanked their business and hurt their stockholders. And who does Glenn blame? The greedy workers, of course.

And the CEO that set this all up? Why, he got thirty million dollars to leave.

Is there any raise they might have gotten where you would say it's to high and will hurt thr profitability of the company?

Do you even believe that the company should be profitable? Or should all profit go to the workers.

[gounion]

Is there any raise they might have gotten where you would say it's to high and will hurt thr profitability of the company?

Do you even believe that the company should be profitable? Or should all profit go to the workers.

Well, is there any raise that a CEO might get that YOU would say is too high?

I can say if workers got the same percentage of raise as the CEO, that might hurt the company.

And yes, of course companies must be profitable. But I'm tired of companies coming and demanding that workers take a cut to save the company and then the CEO gets a huge raise. Most of the time, like at Boeing, the problems of the company aren't the fault of the workers. When the Boeing planes crashed, you blamed the workers, when it was management that caused it. Of course, you never admitted you were wrong. Hell, you're STILL blaming the workers, saying they're too greedy. No, they aren't. They are just sick and tired of being attacked by the company that declared war on them.

The one thing you'll NEVER do is blame the managers for starting the war when they had the upper hand.

[Glennfs]

Well, is there any raise that a CEO might get that YOU would say is too high?

I can say if workers got the same percentage of raise as the CEO, that might hurt the company.

And yes, of course companies must be profitable. But I'm tired of companies coming and demanding that workers take a cut to save the company and then the CEO gets a huge raise. Most of the time, like at Boeing, the problems of the company aren't the fault of the workers. When the Boeing planes crashed, you blamed the workers, when it was management that caused it. Of course, you never admitted you were wrong. Hell, you're STILL blaming the workers, saying they're too greedy. No, they aren't. They are just sick and tired of being attacked by the company that declared war on them.

The one thing you'll NEVER do is blame the managers for starting the war when they had the upper hand.

If the ceo of Boeing or any big corporation worked for free it would be the equivalent of throwing a deck chair off the titanic.

Are some CEOs over paid? Absolutely, but most aren't. Most get paid what the going market rate is for a ceo.
Because very few people in our country are qualified to run a large corporation.

Which is also the reason skilled tradesman like machinist earn a decent wage. Not everyone has the skill set to be a machinist.

[gounion]

If the ceo of Boeing or any big corporation worked for free it would be the equivalent of throwing a deck chair off the titanic.

Are some CEOs over paid? Absolutely, but most aren't. Most get paid what the going market rate is for a ceo.
Because very few people in our country are qualified to run a large corporation.

Which is also the reason skilled tradesman like machinist earn a decent wage. Not everyone has the skill set to be a machinist.

I’d say there isn’t ANY Boeing CEO since the merger with McDonnell Douglas that shown themselves to be qualified - it’s been a shitshow the whole time, getting worse and worse. But hey, they pay out more millions to them when they fire them.

Getting paid to walk away.

it’s the ”market rate” because the CEO’s are on all these other boards and they are on the compensation committees, so they bid up their own jobs. it’s corrupt, but that’s how corporations roll.

And there’s nothing the union is asking for that’s unreasonable.

I’ll say this - IF Boeing REALLY wants to turn the company around, they need to treat the workers as partners rather than enemies. They need to put the company back in the care of the workers and engineers, and the top priority for the company needs to be top engineering and quality.

That’s how, years ago, Harley-Davidson turned THEIR company around. They listened to the employees.

That’s the ONLY way that Boeing can right the ship.

[Greengrass]

Boeing strike is over. As expected, no return of the pension plan

https://www.king5.com/article/tech/scie ... 1546cf3aa0

So, a much improved 401k. 4% company, and 8% company match. 8% pretax investment is very doable. If you don’t you are a fool.

Plus, it’s pretax. At $100,000 a year an $8,000 pretax investment reduces tax on family of 4 by $1,000. So it’s really a $7,000 investment. And at 20% per year makes for a very comfortable retirement.

[gounion]

Well, I said as much that return to pension was a hard ask, and would take a very long strike. Good thing they came to agreement before Trump took power, as he would have broken the strike.

[Glennfs]

Well, I said as much that return to pension was a hard ask, and would take a very long strike. Good thing they came to agreement before Trump took power, as he would have broken the strike.

As things stand today company pensions are something from a bygone era.
Along with get a job at 24 and retire 40 years later.

The Goodyear had a private park Wingfoot Lake for employees and their families. They gave it to the state around 20 years ago.
Up until the late 60s they gave every child of every employee a Xmas gift. As long as they showed up at the recreation facility to see Santa.

Because the ceo had grown up poor and didn't always get a gift. So he made sure every child could get at least one gift.

The recreation facility with a bowling alley, basketball court and auditorium is also gone.

Things have changed and not always for the best

[gounion]

As things stand today company pensions are something from a bygone era.
Along with get a job at 24 and retire 40 years later.

The Goodyear had a private park Wingfoot Lake for employees and their families. They gave it to the state around 20 years ago.
Up until the late 60s they gave every child of every employee a Xmas gift. As long as they showed up at the recreation facility to see Santa.

Because the ceo had grown up poor and didn't always get a gift. So he made sure every child could get at least one gift.

The recreation facility with a bowling alley, basketball court and auditorium is also gone.

Things have changed and not always for the best

Corporations conned their workers and made them think the company just couldn't afford for them to retire. Which, of course, was a lie. But the Big Con worked and so did the 401(k) con.

[Glennfs]

Corporations conned their workers and made them think the company just couldn't afford for them to retire. Which, of course, was a lie. But the Big Con worked and so did the 401(k) con.

On the other hand many people wasted their lives working jobs they hated because of the pension.

Had Goodyear not moved out of Akron I would have gotten a job their between age 23 and 24 and spent the best years of my life miserable

[gounion]

On the other hand many people wasted their lives working jobs they hated because of the pension.

Had Goodyear not moved out of Akron I would have gotten a job their between age 23 and 24 and spent the best years of my life miserable

I enjoyed my working years at the plant. I liked building things. I liked running the machines, using the technology and high-tech tools. But then, I didn't live to work. People at the plant were able to be active in their church, coach and go to their kid's games and enjoy their family with plenty of time for recreation.

The slogan "Eight hours for work, eight hours for rest, and eight hours for what you will" was a part of the progressive campaign of Theodore Roosevelt. The slogan was part of the eight-hour day movement, also known as the 40-hour week movement, which aimed to regulate the length of the working day.

You sell yourself to the company, and I believe that company owes you medical care and a retirement.

[Glennfs]

I enjoyed my working years at the plant. I liked building things. I liked running the machines, using the technology and high-tech tools. But then, I didn't live to work. People at the plant were able to be active in their church, coach and go to their kid's games and enjoy their family with plenty of time for recreation.

The slogan "Eight hours for work, eight hours for rest, and eight hours for what you will" was a part of the progressive campaign of Theodore Roosevelt. The slogan was part of the eight-hour day movement, also known as the 40-hour week movement, which aimed to regulate the length of the working day.

You sell yourself to the company, and I believe that company owes you medical care and a retirement.

They all stole the 8 hour deal from the mason's

[gounion]

They all stole the 8 hour deal from the mason's

Some unions started from Masons.

But the shorter hours movement came from lots of places. Not just the Masons. But then, Masons were the first craft unions. Lots of people at my shop were Masons. It's sad that there are so many anti-union Masons. They obviously didn't take the lessons of the history of the organization to heart.

[Glennfs]

Some unions started from Masons.

But the shorter hours movement came from lots of places. Not just the Masons. But then, Masons were the first craft unions. Lots of people at my shop were Masons. It's sad that there are so many anti-union Masons. They obviously didn't take the lessons of the history of the organization to heart.

That is one of the great things about Mason's. We come from all different walks of life and different religious, political and personal beliefs.