The issue that will define the 2024 election

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gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:24 pm Well the numbers don’t really bear that out. But don’t let that get in your way. The Biden record on immigration is worse by the numbers than any of his predecessors. He is the guy looking for a second term. Trump should run on his record and Biden should run on his. Not sure how that works in your favor.
Look, every time a Dem's in office, the right makes up shit to manufacture outrage about. Then, when they get into office, it magically goes away - or, rather, they just ignore it as unimportant. I remember how the debt was such a big deal during the Clinton administration, so big that Clinton worked, without any help from the GOP, to bring down the deficit. Then, when Bush II got in, he gave the rich big tax cuts because "it's your money" and the deficit and the debt went through the roof, and Dick Cheney famously said "deficits don't matter".

You want to distract from the right's draconian plans for women's health care - or lack thereof. That's why you won't talk about it, even though that's what the thread's about.
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:50 am Look, every time a Dem's in office, the right makes up shit to manufacture outrage about. Then, when they get into office, it magically goes away - or, rather, they just ignore it as unimportant. I remember how the debt was such a big deal during the Clinton administration, so big that Clinton worked, without any help from the GOP, to bring down the deficit. Then, when Bush II got in, he gave the rich big tax cuts because "it's your money" and the deficit and the debt went through the roof, and Dick Cheney famously said "deficits don't matter".

You want to distract from the right's draconian plans for women's health care - or lack thereof. That's why you won't talk about it, even though that's what the thread's about.
Except the numbers published on CBP.gov aren’t manufactured or made up no matter how hard you try to deflect and ignore them.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:27 am Except the numbers published on CBP.gov aren’t manufactured or made up no matter how hard you try to deflect and ignore them.
How are the numbers reliable if the border is completely open and everyone comes and goes without anyone seeing it?
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:46 am How are the numbers reliable if the border is completely open and everyone comes and goes without anyone seeing it?
Except that’s not the case.

You can observe a lot by watching. Yogi Berra.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:49 am Except that’s not the case.

You can observe a lot by watching. Yogi Berra.
What is not the case is that the border is completely open. It's all bullshit, and so is your manufactured outrage.

As Zowie correctly points out, it's a demand problem. But you don't want to say a word about the corporations and people that want that cheap labor coming over. They come because there's jobs. You say nothing about that, and just blame Biden.
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:52 am What is not the case is that the border is completely open. It's all bullshit, and so is your manufactured outrage.

As Zowie correctly points out, it's a demand problem. But you don't want to say a word about the corporations and people that want that cheap labor coming over. They come because there's jobs. You say nothing about that, and just blame Biden.
If you bothered to read what I have previously posted on this thread you would know that I already made the point that most of these folks come to this country to work. Several posts back. But that’s not the basis for a valid asylum claim. They come because this administration shit canned the remain in Mexico policy and instead allowed them into the country. It was predictable and predicted prior to Biden taking office and it’s reflected in the numbers you continue to ignore. These numbers you ignore are stressing many of your blue cities and states esp sanctuary cities and states. It is stressing many of our social safety nets and systems in health care and education. So if this is a smart and effective policy in your view, vote for Biden. You just have to worry about the 60 plus percent of voters who really don’t agree with you and aren’t so quick to buy into the administrations propaganda.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:04 am If you bothered to read what I have previously posted on this thread you would know that I already made the point that most of these folks come to this country to work. Several posts back. But that’s not the basis for a valid asylum claim. They come because this administration shit canned the remain in Mexico policy and instead allowed them into the country. It was predictable and predicted prior to Biden taking office and it’s reflected in the numbers you continue to ignore. These numbers you ignore are stressing many of your blue cities and states esp sanctuary cities and states. It is stressing many of our social safety nets and systems in health care and education. So if this is a smart and effective policy in your view, vote for Biden. You just have to worry about the 60 plus percent of voters who really don’t agree with you and aren’t so quick to buy into the administrations propaganda.
The truth of the Biden policy has been pointed out on this thread. But you and Glenn deny the reality, and instead continue the "the border is completely open" lie.

That's because you can't deal in reality.

Yes, I will vote for Biden and not Trump and his minions. Support them all you want. Your lies won't sway me.

And you can continue your "voters aren't buying what you're selling" when the Dems overperform every election since 2016, because it's what YOU'RE selling voters don't want.
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:11 am The truth of the Biden policy has been pointed out on this thread. But you and Glenn deny the reality, and instead continue the "the border is completely open" lie.

That's because you can't deal in reality.

Yes, I will vote for Biden and not Trump and his minions. Support them all you want. Your lies won't sway me.

And you can continue your "voters aren't buying what you're selling" when the Dems overperform every election since 2016, because it's what YOU'RE selling voters don't want.
Except I’m not selling anything. I’ve never told anyone on this board how to vote. That’s you. I have said many times people should vote as they please. You are the guy who has a problem with voters making up their own mind.

I dunno who or what the voters will buy in the next election. I think the two likely POTUS candidates should run on their records. Sadly it looks like we will have two choose between two really shitty candidates. I’ve already said I can’t and won’t support either of these guys. But that’s me. You can certainly vote as you please.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:20 am Except I’m not selling anything. I’ve never told anyone on this board how to vote. That’s you. I have said many times people should vote as they please. You are the guy who has a problem with voters making up their own mind.

I dunno who or what the voters will buy in the next election. I think the two likely POTUS candidates should run on their records. Sadly it looks like we will have two choose between two really shitty candidates. I’ve already said I can’t and won’t support either of these guys. But that’s me. You can certainly vote as you please.
You support Trump and you support and vote for his minions who do his bidding. He demanded that the Congress impeach Biden, and that's what they're doing, even if they have zero reasons for doing so.

Again, the women of this nation have proven that they aren't buying what YOU'RE selling. And yes, you're selling, while pretending you''re not. That's why you lie and say "the border is completely open" and you can't respond to the FACTS that Zowie has brought to the thread.
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:25 am You support Trump and you support and vote for his minions who do his bidding. He demanded that the Congress impeach Biden, and that's what they're doing, even if they have zero reasons for doing so.

Again, the women of this nation have proven that they aren't buying what YOU'RE selling. And yes, you're selling, while pretending you''re not. That's why you lie and say "the border is completely open" and you can't respond to the FACTS that Zowie has brought to the thread.
Well you are entitled to your opinion. Everyone has a right to be wrong. A right you exercise more often than not. I would note that you have failed to explain the actual numbers from the CBP. You just ignore them. Can you think for yourself or do you need to call in Zowie?
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:33 am Well you are entitled to your opinion. Everyone has a right to be wrong. A right you exercise more often than not. I would note that you have failed to explain the actual numbers from the CBP. You just ignore them. Can you think for yourself or do you need to call in Zowie?
You can't think at all, since you run away from Zowie's posts.

Again, you say the border is completely open. That's not an opinion. It's a fucking lie, and of course you're a fucking liar.
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:36 am You can't think at all, since you run away from Zowie's posts.

Again, you say the border is completely open. That's not an opinion. It's a fucking lie, and of course you're a fucking liar.
Yeah. It’s an opinion. I should know. People who voice opinions should know the difference. Well except you. :lol: :lol:
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:49 am Yeah. It’s an opinion. I should know. People who voice opinions should know the difference. Well except you. :lol: :lol:
It's not an opinion. It's a lie. But you flat-earthers can't figure shit out, right? I mean, flat earth is just an opinion, right?

You're an idiot. Can't understand the difference between fact and opinion.
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:55 am It's not an opinion. It's a lie. But you flat-earthers can't figure shit out, right? I mean, flat earth is just an opinion, right?

You're an idiot. Can't understand the difference between fact and opinion.
Flat earth is an opinion. You are learning. It’s not an opinion with which I agree but it must have made an impact on you. You keep talking about it. You should really get out into the world a bit. Nobody believes that shit anymore. Well, maybe except you.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:15 am Flat earth is an opinion. You are learning. It’s not an opinion with which I agree but it must have made an impact on you. You keep talking about it. You should really get out into the world a bit. Nobody believes that shit anymore. Well, maybe except you.
No, it’s not an opinion. Gasoline isn’t a drink - you can have the opinion that it is, so try to drink it and see how far your opinion gets you.

You still can’t understand the difference. Because you’re stupid.
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:53 am No, it’s not an opinion. Gasoline isn’t a drink - you can have the opinion that it is, so try to drink it and see how far your opinion gets you.

You still can’t understand the difference. Because you’re stupid.
Spare me another one of your idiot analogies. I know the difference. If things the best you can come up with then obviously you don’t get it. You just keep doubling down on stupid. Stop embarrassing yourself.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:30 am Spare me another one of your idiot analogies. I know the difference. If things the best you can come up with then obviously you don’t get it. You just keep doubling down on stupid. Stop embarrassing yourself.
This from the man that says a round earth is just opinion, and the opinion of flat earth is equal.
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ZoWie
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by ZoWie »

I have nothing more to say on the subject. It's largely based on fear of The Other, as augmented by selective camera angles and grabby headlines. There is no common ground for rational discussion on how to reduce the migration, and we already agree that it needs to be reduced for a lot of reasons. We'll never do it because we can't think rationally long enough to implement working solutions.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 11:11 am This from the man that says a round earth is just opinion, and the opinion of flat earth is equal.
This from a man that puts words in the mouth of other posters. IOW lying. If you have to lie to make your argument, you have no argument. Those are your words. One of the few things you have said that actually makes sense. Too bad you can’t live up to them.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 11:31 am This from a man that puts words in the mouth of other posters. IOW lying. If you have to lie to make your argument, you have no argument. Those are your words. One of the few things you have said that actually makes sense. Too bad you can’t live up to them.
You said flat earth is a reasonable opinion. Well, deal with it, or retract your statement.

In fact, flat earth is FALSE. But that would fuck up your world view, wouldn’t it?
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

ZoWie wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 11:22 am I have nothing more to say on the subject. It's largely based on fear of The Other, as augmented by selective camera angles and grabby headlines. There is no common ground for rational discussion on how to reduce the migration, and we already agree that it needs to be reduced for a lot of reasons. We'll never do it because we can't think rationally long enough to implement working solutions.
Well obviously I don’t agree that we are powerless to reduce, limit or control the problem. This POTUS made the problem into a crisis. He should be held accountable for his policy. The voters should decide whether he has improved border security. Today the polls indicate they aren’t favorably impressed. 29 percent favorable versus 69 percent unfavorable on immigration.
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 11:33 am You said flat earth is a reasonable opinion. Well, deal with it, or retract your statement.

In fact, flat earth is FALSE. But that would fuck up your world view, wouldn’t it?
Show me where I ever said flat earth was reasonable. I stated quite clearly the opposite. So you quite obviously are lying.
gounion
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 11:36 am Show me where I ever said flat earth was reasonable. I stated quite clearly the opposite. So you quite obviously are lying.
You said it’s an opinion. Not me. Deal with it.

It’s not. It’s a falsehood. You act like it’s the same as whether you like a cup of cocoa or not.

Scientific facts, just as a round earth, aren’t opinions. You’re the idiot that says flat earth is just an opinion. And it isn’t.

You keep pointing out your own stupidity.
JoeMemphis
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by JoeMemphis »

gounion wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 11:43 am You said it’s an opinion. Not me. Deal with it.

It’s not. It’s a falsehood. You act like it’s the same as whether you like a cup of cocoa or not.

Scientific facts, just as a round earth, aren’t opinions. You’re the idiot that says flat earth is just an opinion. And it isn’t.

You keep pointing out your own stupidity.
I did say it was an opinion. I never said it was reasonable. So you lied. You shouldn’t have to lie to make your point but you do. So it’s you who behaves stupidly. Learn to make your points without resorting to lies. I doubt you have that ability but give it a shot.
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ZoWie
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Re: The issue that will define the 2024 election

Post by ZoWie »

I'm the one that said Biden needs to send military to the border, and make sure it gets on TV including Faux and News Nation. He can swing a close election with such a show.

I also said that it won't end the problem to do so, and it will waste tax money, but that's showbiz.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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