Human Trafficking?

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JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:56 am 2nd flight arrives from Texas to Sacramento with 20 migrants on board, California AG's office confirms
https://www.kcra.com/article/texas-to-s ... s/44096295#

A second plane with migrants onboard arrived at a Sacramento airport on Monday, just days after 16 migrants from Texas were left in front of a Sacramento church without warning.

California Attorney General Rob Bonta described both flights to KCRA 3 as part of the same "scheme" by the state of Florida using public tax dollars to fund a so-called voluntary transportation program.

"We are doing a full investigation to identify what was represented to the asylum seekers, what they were told," he said.

Flight logs from FlightAware showed a similar path from Friday’s group, where migrants traveled from El Paso, Texas, to Deming, New Mexico, before arriving in Sacramento. County officials also confirmed that was the flight.

[snip]

Bonta said both recent flights used a private vendor, Vertol Systems Inc., a company with Florida ties, to carry out the program.

"We’ve learned that many of them were told that Vertol Systems would help them find jobs if they got on the plane and traveled to where there were being taken," Bonta said. "We learned that many of them didn’t know where they were being taken and didn’t know where they were until they arrived. We also learned that Vertol Systems did not lift a finger to help them find any jobs."[snip]

[snip]

Bonta first told KCRA 3 on Sunday that his office believes Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis was behind the transportation of the migrants, as the first set of migrants also carried documents that appeared to have been from the state of Florida.

According to PICO California, those migrants were taken from a migrant center and falsely told they would be taken to another migrant center that would provide them with jobs and other free support.

"State-sanctioned kidnapping is not a public policy choice. It is immoral and disgusting," Bonta said Sunday of the first group of migrants. He noted his agency is evaluating potential criminal or civil action against those who transported or arranged for the transport of these vulnerable immigrants.

[snip][end]
What’s really is disgusting is our current border policy or lack thereof. That is the “root cause”.
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ZoWie
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Re: Human Trafficking?

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I suppose he picked Sacramento because the governor works there.

Whoever dreamed this up should be tried and convicted, but that'll probably never happen.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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ProfX
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Re: Human Trafficking?

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The first group that he dropped off in Sacramento was at the local Catholic church. I thought Guv Ron was Catholic ... of course, he had a Protestant clergy member at his inauguration that appears to agree with Uganda that gays should be put to death ...

I'm curious why as a Florida taxpayer our governor keeps talking about the border. Last I checked, FL's borders are with Alabama and Georgia. Now, I'll grant some folk in those states are downright ornery, but ...

"Border policy" doesn't, per se, deal with folks who arrive by sea ... usually handled by the Coast Guard. We apparently used to let all Cubans who arrived here and at least made it to land automatic entry ... "wet foot dry foot" ... even that's been rescinded. (Not that I thought that was fair to only apply to Cubans, and not, say, Haitians.)

Whatever the "root causes," I still feel deceiving people and transporting them against their will is wrong, even if they are migrants. That is called kidnapping and/or trafficking. And those people still have human rights.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:14 am The first group that he dropped off in Sacramento was at the local Catholic church. I thought Guv Ron was Catholic ... of course, he had a Protestant clergy member at his inauguration that appears to agree with Uganda that gays should be put to death ...

I'm curious why as a Florida taxpayer our governor keeps talking about the border. Last I checked, FL's borders are with Alabama and Georgia. Now, I'll grant some folk in those states are downright ornery, but ...

"Border policy" doesn't, per se, deal with folks who arrive by sea ... usually handled by the Coast Guard. We apparently used to let all Cubans who arrived here and at least made it to land automatic entry ... "wet foot dry foot" ... even that's been rescinded. (Not that I thought that was fair to only apply to Cubans, and not, say, Haitians.)

Whatever the "root causes," I still feel deceiving people and transporting them against their will is wrong, even if they are migrants. That is called kidnapping and/or trafficking. And those people still have human rights.
Telling people the border is closed and secure is deceiving. Pretending the borders aren’t wide open is deceiving. We aren’t talking about 20 or 30 but hundreds of thousands. Our policy or lack thereof enriches and enables real human traffickers south of the border. And yet we don’t hear much about those victims or their human rights.
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Re: Human Trafficking?

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True enough that our mental concept of the border is far more relevant in Tijuana than Miami. There's a series of fences that might or might not conform to actual surveys of where California becomes Mexico, and on one side the signs are mostly in English, and on the other they are nearly all in Spanish. In the middle, they use both. Appropriately, there are stretches where the American side is empty, with rows of fences and armed guards patrolling in Jeeps, while the Mexican side comes right up to the line with dense architecture that stops abruptly in more or less the same place where surveyors have determined that their sovereign territory does.

The plants don't know the difference. They grow the same on either side.

The people know the difference, but they find ways to get across same way the plants do. It just takes longer.

There's an ocean too, and people do try to get in that way, but not as many of them. There's a rather silly wall that goes out maybe 100 feet, after which it's just too deep.

Borders are grotesque.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ZoWie wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:59 am True enough that our mental concept of the border is far more relevant in Tijuana than Miami. There's a series of fences that might or might not conform to actual surveys of where California becomes Mexico, and on one side the signs are mostly in English, and on the other they are nearly all in Spanish. In the middle, they use both. Appropriately, there are stretches where the American side is empty, with rows of fences and armed guards patrolling in Jeeps, while the Mexican side comes right up to the line with dense architecture that stops abruptly in more or less the same place where surveyors have determined that their sovereign territory does.

The plants don't know the difference. They grow the same on either side.

The people know the difference, but they find ways to get across same way the plants do. It just takes longer.

There's an ocean too, and people do try to get in that way, but not as many of them. There's a rather silly wall that goes out maybe 100 feet, after which it's just too deep.

Borders are grotesque.
The problem is we aren’t plants. We aren’t forest or desert animals. We have laws and obligations that depend upon those borders. So while you may think them grotesque, they are real. They are necessary. And to ignore them or pretend they aren’t there doesn’t solve or improve anything. The folks who think like that and established all the sanctuary cities are all now bitching and moaning about the costs and the crime. Well, you asked for it. You got it. You were warned. And you did it anyway.
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Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by Glennfs »

JoeMemphis wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:10 pm The problem is we aren’t plants. We aren’t forest or desert animals. We have laws and obligations that depend upon those borders. So while you may think them grotesque, they are real. They are necessary. And to ignore them or pretend they aren’t there doesn’t solve or improve anything. The folks who think like that and established all the sanctuary cities are all now bitching and moaning about the costs and the crime. Well, you asked for it. You got it. You were warned. And you did it anyway.
Maybe I should start using my neighbor's yard just tell them I don't recognize the legitimacy of borders.
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ZoWie
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Re: Human Trafficking?

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Oh, I know they are there, they are legitimate, and they serve a legitimate need to support our current means of assigning sovereignty. There are economic factors too, such as not letting Asia fish out American waters.

I was thinking more about the lines drawn by humans vs the forces of nature. Both are necessary, but they don't always work together. My general view is that borders are fine, as absurd as they seem in the natural order, and here to stay, so we had best figure out better ways to maintain them.

I suggest more attention be given to human rights and economic equality, but since the problem is a planetary one, obviously the US can't do much about it alone.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
Glennfs
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Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by Glennfs »

ZoWie wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:20 pm Oh, I know they are there, they are legitimate, and they serve a legitimate need to support our current means of assigning sovereignty. There are economic factors too, such as not letting Asia fish out American waters.

I was thinking more about the lines drawn by humans vs the forces of nature. Both are necessary, but they don't always work together. My general view is that borders are fine, as absurd as they seem in the natural order, and here to stay, so we had best figure out better ways to maintain them.

I suggest more attention be given to human rights and economic equality, but since the problem is a planetary one, obviously the US can't do much about it alone.

The funny thing about our borders and illegal immigration is it is so easily fixed.

Just fine companies hiring undocumented workers an amount that would be so high that nobody would risk it.

Personally I prefer a graduated scale
1 to 3 no fine anyone can make a mistake
3 to 10 10k per
11 to 15 20per, 16 to 20 40 per, 21 to 25 80 per and so on.
Fines that would bankrupt your company would end the illegal problem.
" I am a socialist " Bernie Sanders
JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ZoWie wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:20 pm Oh, I know they are there, they are legitimate, and they serve a legitimate need to support our current means of assigning sovereignty. There are economic factors too, such as not letting Asia fish out American waters.

I was thinking more about the lines drawn by humans vs the forces of nature. Both are necessary, but they don't always work together. My general view is that borders are fine, as absurd as they seem in the natural order, and here to stay, so we had best figure out better ways to maintain them.

I suggest more attention be given to human rights and economic equality, but since the problem is a planetary one, obviously the US can't do much about it alone.
Hey. I agree. :)
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ProfX
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Re: Human Trafficking?

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The previous guy had much hat, but very little cattle. The problem actually got much worse under him.

I Thought I Was Going to Die.' How Donald Trump’s Immigration Agenda Set Back the Clock on Fighting Human Trafficking
https://time.com/5905437/human-traffick ... istration/

Child Sex Trafficking Prosecutions Fall During Trump Administration
https://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/crim/629/

Yeah, I want the people engaging in child sex trafficking and human slavery imprisoned yesterday.
I also want people who come here of their own volition to be able to exert legitimate rights to seek asylum and not be separated from their families. And not be internally trafficked inside the U.S. by politicians engaging in stunts.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:38 pm The previous guy had much hat, but very little cattle. The problem actually got much worse under him.

I Thought I Was Going to Die.' How Donald Trump’s Immigration Agenda Set Back the Clock on Fighting Human Trafficking
https://time.com/5905437/human-traffick ... istration/

Child Sex Trafficking Prosecutions Fall During Trump Administration
https://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/crim/629/

Yeah, I want the people engaging in child sex trafficking and human slavery imprisoned yesterday.
I also want people who come here of their own volition to be able to exert legitimate rights to seek asylum and not be separated from their families. And not be internally trafficked inside the U.S. by politicians engaging in stunts.
Millions of people seeking asylum being given court dates years from now. Millions of people that may or may not show up. Millions of people who if denied asylum aren’t going to leave. Millions of people who if denied asylum the current administration will do absolutely nothing about. Legitimate Rights? It’s a joke. The border policy is an absolute joke. So if all the migrants living in the streets is what you want then you are getting it. The cartels are making big bucks off this policy. So are we better off with no borders than we were under Trump. Not in my opinion. It may not have been the perfect policy but this policy is ridiculous.
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ProfX
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Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by ProfX »

The number of migrants crossing the border has hit its lowest point since Biden took office.
Here are four reasons there was no post Title 42 surge.
Experts predicted a huge influx of migrants when the Title 42 Covid ban ended in May.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigr ... -rcna87325

Speaking of cartels, & nonhuman trafficking, ...

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... e%20border.

Between 70 to 90 percent of guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico can be traced back to the U.S. Drug cartels, in particular, buy those weapons in the U.S., mostly in Texas or Arizona, and smuggle them across the border.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:08 pm The number of migrants crossing the border has hit its lowest point since Biden took office.
Here are four reasons there was no post Title 42 surge.
Experts predicted a huge influx of migrants when the Title 42 Covid ban ended in May.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigr ... -rcna87325
So the surge didn’t materialize. So what? What about the millions of folks who crossed over the last 2.5 years? What about the millions to come. Nobody had a plan what to do with all these folks. I don’t believe they have a plan today. Does anyone seriously believe that the Biden admin will do anything to pursue any migrant who doesn’t show for their hearing? Does anyone seriously believe that the Biden administration will seek out and deport anyone denied asylum three years from now. There isn’t a budget for this sort of thing and the administration knows it. It’s all a show. A joke. The border and border enforcement under this administration is a joke. It’s ridiculous.
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Re: Human Trafficking?

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I too have some problems with the Biden migrant policy, but they are different ones. Got rid of some of the worst aspects of Trump era policy, but not enough.

I too would like some Congressional action on comprehensive immigration reform, though I'm not sure if we'd agree on the same actions. We need to develop some permanent residency program for the people who are already here and have lived here most of their lives. It's better than having them living invisible to everybody. And I agree we neither have the resources, nor the inhumanity, to deport them all.

And I long ago stopped caring about what people believe. I prefer to discuss facts.

Cheers.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:33 pm I too have some problems with the Biden migrant policy, but they are different ones. Got rid of some of the worst aspects of Trump era policy, but not enough.

I too would like some Congressional action on comprehensive immigration reform, though I'm not sure if we'd agree on the same actions. We need to develop some permanent residency program for the people who are already here and have lived here most of their lives. It's better than having them living invisible to everybody. And I agree we neither have the resources, nor the inhumanity, to deport them all.

And I long ago stopped caring about what people believe. I prefer to discuss facts.

Cheers.
You can choose to believe what you want. But the numbers surging across our borders have increased dramatically under this President. He has no plan on what to do with all these people now that they are here. So things aren’t better under your guy. The border is a joke. Dismiss it if it helps you sleep at night but when you wake up, your guy still won’t have a policy and the border will still be a joke.

This did NOT have to be this way. This is squarely on Biden and this administration. You can’t blame Congress. Biden made this worse. Not better.
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Re: Human Trafficking?

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I assume we both took civics. This means we both know the POTUS can issue executive orders, which are limited in scope, and can of course be reversed by future POTUSes. They certainly can set policy and approach for executive agencies, most notably ICE and the Border Patrol.

But in another thread, you keep talking about Congress "kicking the can down the road" on the budget, deficit, and debt. We can agree on that, even if I suspect we'll divide on the solutions.

Long-term immigration policy for this country is set by Congress. I see people in both parties saying this is a problem we need to talk comprehensively about. Well, they're right. And maybe once again we'll divide on the solutions, but there is no solution to our long-term immigration problems without Congressional legislative action.

A wall is not going to do crap about people increasingly arriving by sea or sometimes by plane. Playing games with migrants' lives shuffling them around the country like pawns in a stupid game ain't the answer, either. And if there's no long term approach, I suspect every POTUS will increasingly have to deal with a worsening problem.

I definitely agree we need to allocate more resources, mostly to asylum processing, the court system, etc. As for the Border Patrol, well, I think I'd task them on nailing scumbag coyotes who leave people to die in the back of trucks, terrorists, and cartel agents and gun runners, but let's give them what they need.
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Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by Number6 »

If the immigrants were misled into signing up to go to California then I'm sure that would infer criminal intent on the part of the people who convinced them to go and therefor could face criminal prosecution.
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JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:38 pm I assume we both took civics. This means we both know the POTUS can issue executive orders, which are limited in scope, and can of course be reversed by future POTUSes. They certainly can set policy and approach for executive agencies, most notably ICE and the Border Patrol.

But in another thread, you keep talking about Congress "kicking the can down the road" on the budget, deficit, and debt. We can agree on that, even if I suspect we'll divide on the solutions.

Long-term immigration policy for this country is set by Congress. I see people in both parties saying this is a problem we need to talk comprehensively about. Well, they're right. And maybe once again we'll divide on the solutions, but there is no solution to our long-term immigration problems without Congressional legislative action.

A wall is not going to do crap about people increasingly arriving by sea or sometimes by plane. Playing games with migrants' lives shuffling them around the country like pawns in a stupid game ain't the answer, either. And if there's no long term approach, I suspect every POTUS will increasingly have to deal with a worsening problem.

I definitely agree we need to allocate more resources, mostly to asylum processing, the court system, etc. As for the Border Patrol, well, I think I'd task them on nailing scumbag coyotes who leave people to die in the back of trucks, terrorists, and cartel agents and gun runners, but let's give them what they need.
POTUS has a lot of influence over current policy and enforcement efforts at the border. The number of migrants coming across the border surged after his election to record levels. He and his policies were basically seen an an open door to migrants. And they were right. It is an open door. It didn’t have to be this way. This administration changed policies that weren’t perfect and made the situation worse. So while I will agree that Congress needs to address immigration, that’s no excuse for the reckless and negligent border policies implemented by the current administration.

As for nailing the bad guys, out lack of policy feeds their business. That’s on us. The Border Patrol is underfunded and has been treated like shit by the administration. What they need is an administration that has their back and won’t throw them under the bus for political purposes and reasonable border policies. Currently both are severely lacking. Mayorkas is a cluster fuck.
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Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by ZoWie »

EVERYTHING makes the situation worse. Do nothing, it gets worse. Do something, it gets worse, only in a different way. What we've seen for going on 50 years now is a lose-lose situation. Both sides seem essentially clueless on what would actually fix a global malfunction which has many worldwide causes that are out of US control under the present system. Since the underlying causes are global, the fix is currently out of the hands of any one country.

The US had a different fix in the 19th century. Just have them all come in through New York, process them on an island where their real names might or might not be recorded properly, and inject them into the NE US and Midwestern forced labor systems. Build them crappy apartments in company towns out of the money saved by keeping wages low and hours long, and sell them lousy overpriced goods in company stores. Work them until they collapse, then bring in newer meat.

We ultimately didn't like that either. Right now, it's more popular in China, and they don't need immigrant labor with their high population. We kind of wink at it, feigning concern when it floods the planet with cheap shitty knock-off goods and depresses wages and living standards worldwide. It all makes the US less secure. Everybody complains about it, but no one really wants to stop it.

I don't have a solution, and guess what, neither do you.
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Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by bradman »

The one thing that always seems to be lost in this conversation is the Monroe Doctrine and later Banana Republic policies of the U.S.. The last decent effort to address it was The Alliance for Progress during the Kennedy administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_for_Progress
The program was signed at an inter-American conference at Punta del Este, Uruguay, in August 1961. The charter called for reaching these targets:

an annual increase of 2.5% in per capita income,
the establishment of democratic governments,
the elimination of adult illiteracy by 1970
price stability, to avoid inflation or deflation
more equitable income distribution, land reform, and
economic and social planning.[4][5]
[bold] United Fruit Company's asshole slam shut on that one. The Alliance for Progress was shut down in 73. The Chicago Boys picked up on the economic and social planning somewhere around 74. That went swimmingly you betcha by golly wow.
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Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by ZoWie »

The Monroe Doctrine was to discourage further attempts by European countries to colonize Central America and extract its cheap labor and crops that the US wanted for itself. It became policy that this particular version of United Fruit Company diplomacy was our job, not theirs.

Smedley Butler wrote a book about all this, and he was the retired general who had commanded a lot of it. I believe it was called War is a Racket. He confesses to basically serving his country as a hit man for various interests with government influence. It's still a classic critique of a shortsighted policy.

I don't know what the Alliance For Progress was really about, but since JFK was one of the biggest Red-baiters of the lot, I suspect that it was not as altruistic as it sounds. The US had just "lost" Cuba, which was being eyed by the usual suspects as an offshore theme park they could run like Vega$ to attract legal gambling. (There's a movie.)

That "loss" caused no end of hand wringing and blame shifting in DC and in the press. It contributed to a political era in which the Monroe Doctrine school of diplomacy was extended to Communism in Southeast Asia, notably in a former French rubber plantation known as Vietnam. The rest is gloomy history.

Hint: we lost that one too.
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JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ZoWie wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:49 am EVERYTHING makes the situation worse. Do nothing, it gets worse. Do something, it gets worse, only in a different way. What we've seen for going on 50 years now is a lose-lose situation. Both sides seem essentially clueless on what would actually fix a global malfunction which has many worldwide causes that are out of US control under the present system. Since the underlying causes are global, the fix is currently out of the hands of any one country.

The US had a different fix in the 19th century. Just have them all come in through New York, process them on an island where their real names might or might not be recorded properly, and inject them into the NE US and Midwestern forced labor systems. Build them crappy apartments in company towns out of the money saved by keeping wages low and hours long, and sell them lousy overpriced goods in company stores. Work them until they collapse, then bring in newer meat.

We ultimately didn't like that either. Right now, it's more popular in China, and they don't need immigrant labor with their high population. We kind of wink at it, feigning concern when it floods the planet with cheap shitty knock-off goods and depresses wages and living standards worldwide. It all makes the US less secure. Everybody complains about it, but no one really wants to stop it.

I don't have a solution, and guess what, neither do you.
Actually I do have a suggestion but unfortunately neither party will accept it. It makes sense so they reject it.

What I do know is that the “problem” with migrants at the border exploded when Biden took office and the numbers back that up. So all this BS about the border being closed and secure is just BS for the faithful. The admin took a policy that wasn’t perfect and substituted a policy that made things worse. What’s more they have no clue what to do with all these folks they are releasing into this country. It’s a joke. That’s all on Biden. His policies or lack thereof.

They have cut the legs from under the Border Patrol and turned them into clerks. I wouldn’t have that job working for this administration. They will cut your throat if it suits them politically and hang you out to dry. This administrations border policy actually makes Trumps policy look smart.
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Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by ZoWie »

Policy does not exist independent of history. The economic system is strained, we're still coming out of the worst pandemic in a century, we have real damage being done by another land war in Europe, the technology changes every 15 years, and the climate is going to shit. Add the migrant problem to all the other ones that have gotten worse while our politicians blither about who started it.

The only thing I agree with you on is that Biden hasn't done much to fix the problem that he inherited. It's not for lack of interest. I doubt there's really much he can do, given the current political paralysis in this country. Jewish Space Lasers and Stand Your Ground laws seem to be much sexier on social media platforms, which are where American politics seem to happen right now.

What's verifiable in the short term is that the expiration of the temporary immigration measure did not, yet at least, precipitate the huge wave of migrants that Republicans assured us would follow within hours.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
JoeMemphis

Re: Human Trafficking?

Post by JoeMemphis »

ZoWie wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:35 pm Policy does not exist independent of history. The economic system is strained, we're still coming out of the worst pandemic in a century, we have real damage being done by another land war in Europe, and the climate is going to shit. Add the migrant problem to all the other ones that have gotten worse while our politicians blither about who started it.

The only thing I agree with you on is that Biden hasn't done much to fix the problem that he inherited. It's not for lack of interest. I doubt there's really much he can do, given the current political paralysis in this country. Jewish Space Lasers and Stand Your Ground laws seem to be much sexier on social media platforms, which are where American politics seem to happen right now.

What's verifiable in the short term is that the expiration of the temporary immigration measure did not, yet at least, precipitate the huge wave of migrants that Republicans assured us would follow within hours.
Biden inherited a border that was much better controlled. He then reversed most of what was working because he didn’t like the guy who put the policies in place and replaced them with policies that clearly don’t work. His reasoning was purely political and had nothing to do with what was or was not working. It was Trumps policy so he threw it out consequences be damned. That’s just plain stupid and reckless. And the consequences are an explosion in the numbers. So I say send as many of these folks as want to go to sanctuary cities and states because that’s what those governments want and pride themselves on. They should be careful what they ask for.
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