And the sun awakens...

For all the rumor junkies!

Get your fix here...

Moderators: plunderer, Bernie the union guy

Motor City
Board Emeritus
Posts: 6456
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:37 am

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by Motor City »

https://twitter.com/FabulousWeird/statu ... 1055550464
Polar stratospheric clouds over Iceland. Have you ever seen them before? They’re real! Photos by @ h0rdur
Image

Chemical Sky

Motor City
Board Emeritus
Posts: 6456
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:37 am

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by Motor City »

The U.S. Postal Service to Issue NASA Sun Science Forever Stamps
NASA’s images of the Sun’s dynamic and ­­­dazzling beauty have captivated the attention of millions. In 2021, the US Postal Service is showcasing the Sun’s many faces with a series of Sun Science forever stamps that show images of solar activity captured by NASA’s Solar Dynamics Observatory, or SDO.

“I have been a stamp collector all my life and I can’t wait to see NASA science highlighted in this way,” said Thomas Zurbuchen, associate administrator for NASA's Science Mission Directorate (SMD) in Washington. “I feel that the natural world around us is as beautiful as art, and it’s inspiring to be able to share the import and excitement of studying the Sun with people around the country.”

The 20-stamp set features ten images that celebrate the science behind NASA’s ongoing exploration of our nearest star. The images display common events on the Sun, such as solar flares, sunspots and coronal loops. SDO has kept a constant eye on the Sun for over a decade. Outfitted with equipment to capture images of the Sun in multiple wavelengths of visible, ultraviolet, and extreme ultraviolet light, SDO has gathered hundreds of millions of images during its tenure to help scientists learn about how our star works and how its constantly churning magnetic fields create the solar activity we see.............
Image

cool

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

I love those stamps. That is one summbitch coronal hole there at the upper left. Big one. The one in the lower right is closer to what we've been having lately. These tend to go away as the solar cycle becomes more active.

SDO is worth honoring. It's a technical triumph. It downlinks an absolutely staggering amount of high-res information, 24/7.
Can we get serious about the climate now?

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

Speaking of coronal holes, the enhanced solar wind from a small one managed to field-align with the Earth's magnetic field, causing some pretty decent aurora when none was expected. The magnetic field was disturbed briefly, with a Kp of 5 - minor storm level. Now back to stable.

It was real good aurora... all the colors. This indicates a deep penetration into the atmosphere by particles. The colors are excitation of various gases at different atmospheric levels.

Odd... all the numbers point toward lousy radio propagation, but it's actually quite good. We're back to that point that I'd almost forgotten, when short wave signals sent up into the air have a good chance at being heard over much of the planet's inhabited surface.
Can we get serious about the climate now?

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

This once again becomes the official solar-terrestrial thread for Cycle 25, since now it appears to be for real. The 25th 11-year solar peak since they started counting such things. They're expecting a low one, but current research might suggest that it's not just the size of solar events but their timing that makes for the kind of tinfoil-hat geomagnetic storms that are so often worried about and so seldom experienced.

Much is made of the Carrington Event. This for a long time was the supposed grand-daddy of all tinfoil hat geomagnetic/particle events that started the whole concern about solar flares. It was in the 19th Century, and supposedly it was the solar storm of all time. It got the Earth's magnetic field moving around so much that long telegraph lines became generators, causing arcing and fires in telegraph offices. It got electrons and protons surging through the ground, adding to the mess. There were reports of aurora in places like Mexico City.

Current research, however, has led to the theory that the Carrington Event was not the biggest summbitch solar flare ever, and that in fact there have been larger ones. It was actually a 1-2 punch from coronal mass ejections hitting the Earth. The theory goes that the first one clears the way for the second one to do the nasty stuff. The timing has to be perfect. Space is a big place, or lack of a place, or whatever, and ejected mass from solar flares doesn't always hit the Earth. It's a real long shot to get a Carrington Event.

The part that the Nooz is going to like is that there have actually been several solar storms that were as big and maybe bigger than the Carrington Event, once you accurately measure everything out. The New York Railroad Storm of 1921 did the telegraph thing again, not to mention blowing out power to electric locomotives, hence the name. Closest thing since was in 1998 when a Hydro Quebec transformer got blown up, absolutely charred, precipitating yet another one of those cascading Northeast blackouts. The grid giveth and the grid taketh away.

This makes The Big One far more likely. Could be years, could be centuries, but eventually everything's going to hit just right again. First to go will be the satellites, no more GPS or communication. There goes the proper functioning of civilization right there. There is much talk of investing in backup systems, since indeed this is inevitable. Needless to say, this remains talk, though I do see some halting steps being made to restore terrestrial navigation as a backup. Very halting steps. As always, the money is not there, since it's so much more important to secure tax breaks for the wealthy 1%.

It's the law of the United States that we get Loran going again, as ordered in a bill passed by Congress and signed by some president or other. Laws don't buy equipment, train technicians, and build huge antenna systems. You know, like the equipment, techs, and antennas that we had... before we gave Loran the axe. Now find the money to build back better. Always that money thing. Money, money, money.

Too bad it can't repel coronal mass ejections.
Can we get serious about the climate now?

User avatar
Sam Lefthand
Board Emeritus
Posts: 17590
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by Sam Lefthand »

Good my Loran set will work again. Now all I need is an ocean going yacht to install it on again.

:)

I knew I shouldn't throw it away.

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

I think there's one station currently testing, but it's on the East Coast. Last year, I verified its existence using a remote SDR receiver that covered 100 kHz. It was buzzing away, and it did detect with the right GRI number.

What happened was that the Coast Guard scrapped all the other equipment after Loran was decomissioned. This station hadn't been dismantled yet, so they got it back up with a minimum of new work and expense. It, like the rest, had been converted (using our money) to 9-pulse eLoran, so they can't say that the system was obsolete. It wasn't. Now the government has to spend our money (again) to get the other chains going with all new hardware. The antennas, in particular, are huge, and very expensive.

The reasons given in the bill that requires all this include the likelihood of GPS being spoofed by adversaries, or being knocked out altogether by a 100-year solar storm. They noted that some countries in Europe have had issues with the spoofing attempts. The solar storm is one of those things that we don't want to think about, but eventually it happens.
Can we get serious about the climate now?

User avatar
Sam Lefthand
Board Emeritus
Posts: 17590
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by Sam Lefthand »

ZoWie wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:38 pm
I think there's one station currently testing, but it's on the East Coast. Last year, I verified its existence using a remote SDR receiver that covered 100 kHz. It was buzzing away, and it did detect with the right GRI number.

What happened was that the Coast Guard scrapped all the other equipment after Loran was decomissioned. This station hadn't been dismantled yet, so they got it back up with a minimum of new work and expense. It, like the rest, had been converted (using our money) to 9-pulse eLoran, so they can't say that the system was obsolete. It wasn't. Now the government has to spend our money (again) to get the other chains going with all new hardware. The antennas, in particular, are huge, and very expensive.

The reasons given in the bill that requires all this include the likelihood of GPS being spoofed by adversaries, or being knocked out altogether by a 100-year solar storm. They noted that some countries in Europe have had issues with the spoofing attempts. The solar storm is one of those things that we don't want to think about, but eventually it happens.
Twice I've practically lived under two of the old arrays. The first was WWVB in Ft Collins Colo. It could see the towers from one of the houses I liven in there. It's still broadcasting as a time station. But I don't know if my old Loran set could still use a signal from there, I doubt it.

I've often used it's time signal to calibrate instruments when i was an instrument maker at CSU. Having a time standard broadcast is a very important thing for scientific study and industry. It one of the many necessary things a government simply must provide.

I would think as things go it would not be a terribly costly thing to maintain. The cost of not providing that simple service would be much higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB

https://www.nist.gov/time-distribution/ ... tation-wwv


The other array which at one time I lived practically under was in California west of Sacramento. I didn't live there for long, maybe I should say I camped there while doing a several week job.

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

Yeah WWVB is used by a lot of people as a time and frequency standard. Its low frequency has a much steadier propagation than HF does, so the latency doesn't keep changing. Low frequency = much bigger antenna, and the one on the NIST antenna farm outside Ft Collins is as you say quite the construction. Most of those "atomic clocks" you see advertised sync to WWVB.

The drumpf government tried to get rid WWV/WWVH/WWVB too. They didn't seem to care that millions of people's clocks would drift ever farther from the correct time, and the users wouldn't know why. Reality set in eventually, and they cut some other essential service instead.

My father was a maritime navigator in the pre-GPS era, and used WWV/WWVH time ticks to get more precise timing on a sun shot. This sort of thing gives a clue why they have the leap seconds* in the first place. Lab techs hate them, but they're for a reason. We still have some trained professionals doing essential work who really do need to know the difference between UTC and other universal time scales. People forget that at one time there was no GPS, and nowadays if it went out we'd have too many people who'd be marginally capable or incapable of finding their position some other way.

West of Sacramento, hmmm. At one time just about everyone had some kind of site in that general area. DoD, VOA, telco, you name it. Lots of steel and wire in the sky. Some of these are still being used.

--
*Watch this space for announcement of a possible negative leap second. It would be the first ever. Could happen.
Can we get serious about the climate now?

User avatar
rainwater
Board Emeritus
Posts: 20405
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:07 am

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by rainwater »

the entirety of the valley, the large valley of which TaosNM sits...allllll those mountains not a
one of them has any towers of any kind. not a one.
no tv no net no reception of any kind at home.

its no wonder the nav rez had little idea of covid and its severity since theyve got NO tv at all
unless its cable they have to buy for their teepees shacks and hogans.

ufb really. this valley has a large pop and its totally ignored.
Who are these..flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids, They speak
for all that is cruel stupid, They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of
these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it, Fuck them.
HST.

User avatar
Sam Lefthand
Board Emeritus
Posts: 17590
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by Sam Lefthand »

ZoWie wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:45 pm
Yeah WWVB is used by a lot of people as a time and frequency standard. Its low frequency has a much steadier propagation than HF does, so the latency doesn't keep changing. Low frequency = much bigger antenna, and the one on the NIST antenna farm outside Ft Collins is as you say quite the construction. Most of those "atomic clocks" you see advertised sync to WWVB.

The drumpf government tried to get rid WWV/WWVH/WWVB too. They didn't seem to care that millions of people's clocks would drift ever farther from the correct time, and the users wouldn't know why. Reality set in eventually, and they cut some other essential service instead.

My father was a maritime navigator in the pre-GPS era, and used WWV/WWVH time ticks to get more precise timing on a sun shot. This sort of thing gives a clue why they have the leap seconds* in the first place. Lab techs hate them, but they're for a reason. We still have some trained professionals doing essential work who really do need to know the difference between UTC and other universal time scales. People forget that at one time there was no GPS, and nowadays if it went out we'd have too many people who'd be marginally capable or incapable of finding their position some other way.

West of Sacramento, hmmm. At one time just about everyone had some kind of site in that general area. DoD, VOA, telco, you name it. Lots of steel and wire in the sky. Some of these are still being used.

--
*Watch this space for announcement of a possible negative leap second. It would be the first ever. Could happen.
I can do Celestial navigation, to do that one has to understand both sidereal time and solar time, and know how to convert them back and forth.

When I did Celestial it was something done to pass time as it creates an interesting contest with oneself, comparing my Celestial fixes with Loran or Global Positioning fixes. Then assuming that the machine fixes were exact, assuming all error was in the Celestial fix.

I would hate to be approaching a landfall at night while relying on an earlier in the day Celestial fix and dead reckoning. There is an apparent reason it is called DEAD reckoning once offshore rocks and reefs are taken into account.


I found this video again, it's a good one, it might help to explain to others what we're talking about.




it covers the sub-solar point and the analemma. School globes have the analemma figure 8 pasted in a unused area of the Pacific Ocean as a reference key but few understand why it is there.

It's there because in theory a kid with a standard school globe and a crude protractor could get themselves completely lost thinking that is all one needs to do Celestial navigation. It ought to work but a prudent person will purchase a nautical almanac each year and use that instead.

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

Nice video.
What I like is when people do the pinhole camera thing where they open up the little hole once at local solar noon every day, and the resulting photo is a pretty good approximation of the analemma in the sky. You are reminded that this stuff is for real.

I love timekeeping. It's completely true that the clock, as an oscillator driving a counter, is perfect for civil timekeeping. Thing is that, in other ways, it's "wrong" most of the year, and as the guy in the video says, the difference changes in various ways. We got really hung on accuracy, and kept refining atomic time, but the problem is that as you know, atomic time is as constant as anything we're able to observe in this universe, and the planet's movements are anything but. There's a big disconnect here, and UTC plus the leap seconds were a crude way to at least address the problem. The UTC second remains some number of quantum transitions, but the number of seconds gets tweaked so that real world timekeeping can stay relatively in sync with what you'd get from the sun at your meridian. We've reached a point where UTC is something like 19 seconds off International Atomic Time. You see this occasionally when traveling with your cell phone. Verizon here used to follow GPS time, which sort of follows atomic time, sort of, and so your cell phone would change the minute that many seconds off from when WWV/WWVH/WWVB did. They fixed that a few years ago.

So now the general public seems to want year-round daylight saving time, where the sub-solar point would always be a hour off, and the sun would rise well after the morning commute for three months a year. And the techies want to can the leap seconds, so the standard for civil timekeeping decouples from the real motions of our planet.

If they get their way, all I can say is that it's too bad we'll have to wait until many generations from ours before the Times Square ball drops in broad daylight.
Can we get serious about the climate now?

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

Sunspots continue to increase, however sporadically. It's just enough to prove that there really is a Cycle 25.

Active region 2816 put out the first class M flare in quite a while. That's one step above B in the weird way they measure these. It's one step below X, which is when you start taking solar flares seriously. Cycle 25 has yet to generate anything X rated, but it's only a matter of time.

Even so, this flare caused a short radio propagation fadeout on paths going over the Pacific Ocean, and several loud radio bursts. A weak mass ejection should miss the Earth. Sorry, aurora fans.
Can we get serious about the climate now?

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

First M class flares of the new Cycle 25. Active Region 2824 is more strongly polarized than the others in the new cycle, and it's rockin' and rollin'. Biggest effect right now seems to be on radio propagation.
Can we get serious about the climate now?

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

There's talk of an early magnetic convergence. I don't completely understand what they're talking about, but it relates to a convergence of solar magnetic fields as the polarity flips, as it does every half cycle. The theory goes that an early one gives more time for solar activity to build to a high peak like the one in 1958. We'll see. Stay tuned.....
Can we get serious about the climate now?

User avatar
ZoWie
Board Emeritus
Posts: 22430
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Location: The blue parts of the map

Re: And the sun awakens...

Post by ZoWie »

First X-class solar flare of Cycle 21. It caused HF radio to black out. We're still slightly in the effect. Due to its position, no major mass ejection effects should result on this planet.
Can we get serious about the climate now?

Post Reply